05-08-2005 18:30									#1
	Jungles galore Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Easy one here.

Most times i play , i end up with another civ on my continent but we are separated by a rather large patch of jungle.

I usually am done REXing before i can use boats effectively ( crossing sea tiles ).

So i was wondering whats the usual way to work it out. Do you guys cross the jungle with a SOD or two, or pack a couple galleys and go trough the shoreline instead. Or keep that other civ friendly and focus on growing my half of the continent until i can sail to another island ?

Clearing the jungle looks like overkill, as well as building roads on it. So im rather perplexed by the situation.

any help appreciated

	05-08-2005 20:02									#2
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I would not use galleys as that is production that could be used to make units.

I want to take out all civs on my contient, when is the only question. A SoD works fine. Don't forget that settlers clear the jungle, so pack towns close in the jungle.

Lots of war settlers to allow razing of cities to get slaves for jungle work.

I am not fond of settling on small islands, but I will send out suicide ships to find all civs.

	05-08-2005 22:44									#3
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Im not sure i understand the concept of settlers being able to clear jungle ?

They have the same option as the workers ? or its by creating a town in the jungle , you kinda swipe the town center tile off ?

im at work at the moment so i cannot test this.

	06-08-2005 00:04									#4
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In regular civ settlers cannot build anything except cities. Don't build in jungle - they have only one shield and one wheat (IIRC) and any cities that work jungle tiles - or are next to them! - can suffer from disease. My strategy is to cut them down. Industrious civs are always best!

	06-08-2005 00:56									#5
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quote: Originally posted by rofloflo Im not sure i understand the concept of settlers being able to clear jungle ? They have the same option as the workers ? or its by creating a town in the jungle , you kinda swipe the town center tile off ? im at work at the moment so i cannot test this.

When you found a city that tile is clear of forest or jungle. Since these are towns that are beyond the OCN, they will be quite corrupt.

That means I do not have to worry about them for a time and just get the free support they provide. I can place them at CxxC or even closer and not be concerned about production.

If the area has room for say 8 towns like this I have 8 less tiles to clear and 8x support added. I am now that much closer to the civ I am going to take down.

	06-08-2005 01:01									#6
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quote: Originally posted by justjake73 In regular civ settlers cannot build anything except cities. Don't build in jungle - they have only one shield and one wheat (IIRC) and any cities that work jungle tiles - or are next to them! - can suffer from disease. My strategy is to cut them down. Industrious civs are always best!

Settlers do not clear jungles perse, they clear a given tile and it is the same for C3/PTW and C3C. They do it when you found a town.

Clearing jungles is a labor intensive task and is not productive before either RP or large numbers of slaves. Those worker turns are better off working on core tiles, before that time.

We don't worry about disease in this case as those are corrupt towns and the loss of pop is not an issue. You are going to get 1 gold either way, until you can get enough happiness to allowed specialist.

	06-08-2005 01:04									#7
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So basically , what you recommend is to build a city on each tile going towards the other civ, thus negating/reducing the penalty of movement caused by the jungle?

Did you check mathematically in terms of shield and turns what is the longest?

I may sound slow but im not entierly sure i understand the technique you propose. Although i do have an idea of what it sounds like.

i think i will try both approaches and measure the pros and cons.

see if it takes me less turns to clean the forest with a worker force, or put small spaced cities and use them as support buffers. Or just plainly cross with 2 SOD and try to take their first city as a base of operations.

Again thanks for the input, duely appriciated. Sorry for my weak english , that canadian flag next to my nick should really be quebec as in french speaking.

	06-08-2005 01:43									#8
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Depends. If you can bypass the jungles with ships and land with a ton of troops, like marines, do that.

More commonly, you are going to fight in the jungles. If you're Aztec, like me, having units that can attack and defend and retreat from non mobile units is a big plus. They run back, heal and fight.

A road to the enemy is crucial. Make sure to protect it, too.

If you're really advanced, then aztecs get creamed in a fight, so use clusters of infantry or tanks. I find knights and horses are okay unless they have a road for mucho damage. Oh, and never attack enemies in mountains unless they're weak or you have the retreat option

StoryTeller

	06-08-2005 01:51									#9
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Hehe , i think i got it from that second vmxa post.

i can't wait to come back from work and try this advancement with cities.

it will remind me the glorious days of smax.

I will still try to cross without building too, and if i have time i may go for the galley debarquement.

I was just unsure the jungle is cleared upon the city being built.

Once i have the jungle issue cleared out , i think its going to be smooth sailing from there on. I read so much about middle ages and up that i cant wait to reach it. Those damned jungle squares really put a dent in my craving for grandeur

I was so anxious to try all this trading and embassy stuff , until i realized i can't contact any other civ aside the babylonians near that jungle. i did wipe out the japanese to secure the first half or my island.

Questions arise however...once im done with babylonians , i will pretty much be stuck there ( althought the lighthouse may be done by then ). do you guys usually settle on second islands of importance or just conquer it and dont bother growing the cities? also , im not sure whats most effective when crossing the sea ? you bring one or two SOD ? just a couple settlers with defense ect?

i must admit coming from smac changes the sea perspective quite a lot. in smac it wasnt even an issue because the units where a lot more versatile.

	06-08-2005 03:06									#10
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I play hot and arid worlds so I always have desert. I hate jungle with a passion.

I usually build cities right up to the enemy as has been suggested above. Make sure you defend these well. And eventually I'll either build roads on the jungle or clear it away- depending on the availability of workers. And just move all my forces down (or up) to the jungle. Keeping some in your main empire of course to watch for invasion by seas. Usually no more than 4 units will surprise you, but I have seen more in scenarios.

	06-08-2005 04:46									#11
	Re: Jungles galore Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by rofloflo Easy one here. Most times i play , i end up with another civ on my continent but we are separated by a rather large patch of jungle. I usually am done REXing before i can use boats effectively ( crossing sea tiles ). So i was wondering whats the usual way to work it out. Do you guys cross the jungle with a SOD or two, or pack a couple galleys and go trough the shoreline instead. Or keep that other civ friendly and focus on growing my half of the continent until i can sail to another island ? Clearing the jungle looks like overkill, as well as building roads on it. So im rather perplexed by the situation. any help appreciated

Actually, that's the situation that I love. Jungle = grassland.
You just have to uncover it.

First thing is that in stock rules you can plant a city in jungle (it will auto clear that jungle into grassland.) So every city in Jungle you found is one less jungle tile you have to clear.

Plus, Jungle seems to slow down AI REX (except for luxaries and future resource areas [coal/rubber]) and also due to AI not building enough workers slows down their development.

The general rule in jungle is clear a jungle tile first and then road. This saves several turns compared to roading jungle and then clearing.

This is just me, but I almost always found all cities I'm going to and conquer all the ones I'm going to on my starting landmass before expanding onto other landmasses. But don't don't tend to play Archepello maps.

	06-08-2005 04:51									#12
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Myself, I hate large areas of Tundra with a passion.

Jungle/Marsh can be cleared to grassland
Desert can be irrigated & later railed
Tundra has no atractive options ever, but if you forget to settle it and see the AI founding a city there, you can be sure there's oil there.

Last edited by joncnunn on 06-08-2005 at 22:07

	06-08-2005 11:29									#13
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I road through

any where between 2-3 workers making a path for easy travel

seems to catch the AI by suprise

	06-08-2005 12:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Platypus Rex seems to catch the AI by suprise

Most things seem to do that

	06-08-2005 20:08									#15
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Clearing jungle is dependant upon the amount of workers/slaves I have and if I have RP.

If workers are on the tile then clear and then road as the number of turns needed to road a tile with jungle is longer, than without jungle.

If I have workers stacked I like to send some to a jungle tile to road first anyway. The reason is that if I have a team that can road in one turn or two and I have a matching clearing team, I can save the turn of the clearing team. The clearing team will have more workers and hence more turns saved.

This is because with no road the clearing team can only move on the tile and stop. Next turn it can clear. If I had a road already the clearing team moves to the tile and clears that turn.

You can di this before RP, but you need more workers.

	06-08-2005 22:12									#16
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As for priority of clearing jungle in an existing city, it depends heavily upon much much jungle is in the city raidus of it.

The city surrounded by jungle needs it cleared much faster than cities on the edge of a jungle that can work other tiles.

	06-08-2005 23:30									#17
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A lot depends on where you are in the game. If it is a mostly corrupt town and you are well into the game, you do not have a big need to clear it. It is just something you do as workers permit.

Earlier, the town can be productive, so it the need is greater.

	08-08-2005 21:12									#18
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Several stacks of slave workers clears jungle in no time. And road after you clear as it does save turns. However, I wouldn't waste my good workers on clearing jungle, unless they had nothing else productive to do. Being an industrious civ certainly does help.

	12-08-2005 16:54									#19
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I do not like to leave empty spaces, so I will usually found cities throughout jungle areas, but often their first 2 or 3 build orders are workers, often even before defenders, so that I have the workers to clear the jungle, and road, mine and irrigate. If I get attacked and lose some undefended towns, it is no great loss, as they stay at size 1 in this initial period, no one gains a town from me, it can only get razed. Being very poorly defended, or undefended, there is no maintainance cost or unit costs until later gov'ts are achieved, and by then they may have been able to grow and become contributors to the overall economy anyway. But other more suitable terrain will be settled first.

	13-08-2005 19:37									#20
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not really an answer to your question, but something to bear in mind regarding jungles.

i find harbours can come in very handy if you have access to the coast and a lot of jungle to clear. go ahead and found lotsa coastal cities in the jungle. then build harbours in those cities.

that way, you can continue to feed the populace and (most significantly) continue to grow. ok, so you get no shields from working coastal squares, but you do get plenty of cash, so you can keep on rexin' and needn't fall behind in research. then, when you have workers to spare, clear the jungle at your leisure.