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DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 05-08-2005 20:06 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Let the good times roll -- 249,000 new jobs! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

With 42,000 in upward revisions for May and June and 207,000 new jobs for July, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced 249,000 new jobs in the US today. This brings the average number of new jobs to 191,000 per month so far this year.

The vast majority of these jobs are in the private sector, and those jobs that have been added by governments are mostly in education.

Rock on.

quote:
WRAPUP 1-U.S. jobs growth unexpectedly strong in July
Fri Aug 5, 2005 9:03 AM ET
By Tim Ahmann

WASHINGTON, Aug 5 (Reuters) - U.S. job growth picked up last month as employers added 207,000 workers to their payrolls, a healthy gain that outstripped Wall Street expectations, a government report showed on Friday.

The unemployment rate held steady at the 2-3/4-year low of 5 percent reached in June, the Labor Department said.

The payrolls gain, spurred on by service-sector hiring, was stronger than expected by economists who had looked for an increase of 183,000 with the jobless rate steady.

"This is a crystal clear indication that the labor markets are very healthy and it reinforces the notion that the economy is growing in a healthy, sustainable way," said Dana Johnson, chief economist at Comerica in Detroit.

Prices for U.S. government bonds fell on the data and the dollar edged higher. Stocks futures were little changed.

While some economists thought the report might be skewed by Hurricane Dennis, which battered the Florida panhandle in mid-July, the department said the storm appeared to have no discernible impact on the figures.

A net upward revision of 42,000 to the combined job count for May and June contributed to the report's solid tenor. U.S. employers added 166,000 workers in June and 126,000 in May.

The pickup in job growth last month pushed this year's average monthly payroll gain to 191,000, a pace economists see as strong enough to slowly tighten the labor market.

The factory sector, which shed 4,000 workers last month, was one of the only weak spots. However, the Labor Department noted that an 11,000-job drop in auto manufacturing reflected larger-than-normal temporary plant shutdowns for retooling.

This was the last piece of significant economic data that Federal Reserve policy-makers will have to mull when they meet on Tuesday to set interest rates.

The Fed, which has raised the benchmark overnight lending rate at each of its last nine meetings, is widely expected to bump it up another quarter-percentage point to 3.5 percent next week.

Financial markets see the rate hitting 4 percent by year end, although the jobs report had some betting it could move even higher.

"The Fed is going to keep chugging along," said Robert MacIntosh, chief economist at Eaton Vance Management in Boston.

Average hourly earnings shot up six cents, or 0.4 percent, in July -- the biggest rise in a year. However, earnings are up just 2.7 percent over the past 12 months, suggesting wages have yet to become a big inflationary concern.

The service side of the economy created the lion's share of the jobs. Retailers added 50,000 workers, in part reflecting job growth at automobile dealers hiring to cope with a surge of shoppers enticed by special sales incentives.

The U.S. economy grew a solid 3.4 percent in the second quarter and would have turned in an even stronger performance if producers had not sold off inventories to meet strong demand. With inventories lean, producers are expected to bump up production in the current third quarter.

Last edited by DanS on 05-08-2005 at 20:43

Agathon is offline Agathon
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How long before this is debunked, just like every other thread than DanS posts on the topic?

Not long, I think.

dannubis is offline dannubis
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cause he is living in a material world, and he is a material boy ... TADADA

rah is offline rah
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What I find most encouraging is
quote:

Average hourly earnings shot up six cents, or 0.4 percent, in July -- the biggest rise in a year. However, earnings are up just 2.7 percent over the past 12 months, suggesting wages have yet to become a big inflationary concern.

This somewhat counters all those that claim that the new jobs replacing lost jobs are mostly lower income jobs.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
Originally posted by dannubis
cause he is living in a material world, and he is a material boy ... TADADA


I make no apologies for caring about this stuff. It's good news that a quarter million more people have jobs this month versus last. And the fact that most of them are getting jobs in the private sector is heartening.

dannubis is offline dannubis
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i was just doing what you said (ok, not really rock ok, but it was the first that came to mind)???

go US!

i hope you guys keep up the good work.

what kind of jobs are they btw?

DanS is offline DanS
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Retail, restaurants, education, health care, real estate, transportation, architecture, facilities management, management consulting.

Japher is offline Japher
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They're all jobs that not even a black guy will do... Thus, they'll be taken by Mexicans!

Atahualpa is offline Atahualpa
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200,000 new Light on/off switchers

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
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HERE'S some of those transportation jobs getting filled. $40k per year to start for train service employees, plus full benefits. Somebody's got to haul all that import traffic in from the West Coast. Its productive, skilled labor and pays well.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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DanS sorry...what was that link for state by state statistics again?
'
edit nm i think i found it

total private: AR added 4,000 jobs

total nonfarm seasonally adjusted: AR added 3,600 jobs

total nonfarm not adjusted: AR lost 700 jobs

DanS new question: What does "seasonally adjusted" mean for labor statistics?

seasonally adjusted - 1,500 of those new jobs are government jobs but i guess this is about normal? that would be a bit under a third of all new jobs

Last edited by mrmitchell on 05-08-2005 at 23:05

DanS is offline DanS
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Looking at the database, lots of those are in small town Midwest, where $40k per year + full benefits is a handsome salary.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell
DanS new question: What does "seasonally adjusted" mean for labor statistics?

seasonally adjusted - 1,500 of those new jobs are government jobs but i guess this is about normal? that would be a bit under a third of all new jobs


I'm not an economist, so some others here might be able to give you a more precise answer. But in summary, some non-farm jobs are seasonal. By seasonally adjusted, as I understand it, it means the numbers reflecting these jobs are evened out over the course of a year.

pchang is offline pchang
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Construction jobs are seasonal - not much going on in the winter time.
Retail jobs are seasonal - temporary hires during summer (back to school) and Christmas
etc.
Thus, raw numbers are hard to judge on a monthly basis. Seasonal adjustment is an attempt to run the raw numbers through statistical analyses to come up with a rational way of smoothing out the numbers and giving an end result that is easier to judge on a monthly basis. It works as long as the hiring patterns of the current year do not differ too much from historical patterns. Thus during times of economic change (the peaks of both downturns and recoveries), these numbers are less reliable.

pchang is offline pchang
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The all new jobs are Mcjobs thing has been debunked in every single report (average wages have not fallen in a single report all year). In addition, the key is that the average job gain is now 191,000/month. This is 41,000 over the estimated 150,000 per month required to keep up with population gain. In my opinion, this is what marks a real recovery.

Seeker is offline Seeker
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my reaction:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=136219

anyone else feel the terror?

pchang is offline pchang
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It turns out that average job growth for all of 2004 turned out to be 183,000 per month. I guess this new recovery has been going on for over 18 months now.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
my reaction:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=136219

anyone else feel the terror?


To be fair, that insterstellar oil stuff was a thought exercise, not an actual proposal.

I have been wrong with regard to oil so far. I thought prices would moderate. And if they didn't moderate, I thought our economy would run off the rails. But prices have gone up even more and the economy is chugging along at a good, measured pace. I still think that the price of oil will go down a lot. So I guess I'm doubling up on this bet.

Edit: To be clear, the reason why oil will go down in price a lot is because even the most marginal of oil producers are making good money off of oil nowadays and have an incentive to increase production. This state of affairs isn't in the long-term interest of the oil-exporting nations.

Last edited by DanS on 06-08-2005 at 23:08

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

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I'm not sure I agree with that reasoning, DanS. OPEC handles a huge chunk of global oil production, and is pretty tight-fisted when it comes to oil production levels. If Canada or Finland or some other relatively minor oil producer chooses to add a few percent more oil to the market, they'll do well monetarily, but they won't significantly impact the oil prices as a whole.

Ultimately, oil is really a limited resource - and as supply globally decreases, which WILL happen at some point, prices will go up - until/unless alternatives are developped. That's not really happening right now - not fast enough anyway - so prices will continue to go up ... and OPEC isn't going to flood the market to reverse that trend significantly, any more than it's going to risk prematurely running out of oil ...

DanS is offline DanS
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Canada is a classic example. Canada is making money hand over fist in the oil sands, which by all rights shouldn't be very profitable. But at these prices, it pays hugely to increase capacity. This capacity will be there pretty much forever.

Every barrel of oil exported from a non-OPEC state that replaces an OPEC barrel of oil is bad news long-term for OPEC. OPEC's long efforts to run everybody non-OPEC out of the business by having rock bottom prices are being set back decades.

pchang is offline pchang
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DanS is wrong about oil Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Global demand for oil has outstripped the capacity of any one organization to control its price. The price of oil will temporarily stabilize at higher and higher levels until a suitable alternative becomes viable. At that point, the price of oil will stabilize for good or perhaps even drop a little.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
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191,000 new jobs per month, hmmm

295,700,000 people in the USA
Annual growth rate of 0.92%
Equals 226,000 new Americans per month.

147,000,000 Americans are in labor force or unemployed, meaning roughly 1/2 work or are looking for work.

Equals a demand for 113,000 new jobs a month.

So there's about 80,000 more new jobs than needed to keep with capacity per month, not bad, so long as the job counts are by worker and not by job, as there are people who work multiple jobs.

quote:
The service side of the economy created the lion's share of the jobs. Retailers added 50,000 workers, in part reflecting job growth at automobile dealers hiring to cope with a surge of shoppers enticed by special sales incentives.


The size of the auto sales industry is disturbing; there are more people selling cars than making cars. I question how sustainable this is.

pchang is offline pchang
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And hence, the economists estimates that it takes 150,000 new jobs per month to keep up with population growth.....

As for builders vs. sellers - you will find the same ratios for almost every product there is. How many people do you think sell digital cameras vs. build them?

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
Originally posted by pchang
Global demand for oil has outstripped the capacity of any one organization to control its price. The price of oil will temporarily stabilize at higher and higher levels until a suitable alternative becomes viable. At that point, the price of oil will stabilize for good or perhaps even drop a little.


That's only a temporary phenomenon and would only become permanent if OPEC doesn't get with it and invest in much more production.

The percentage of oil used that is supplied by OPEC is going up, not down. That's the long-term trend. And OPEC hasn't stopped being a cartel, last I checked, even if it misjudged demand this once.

Last edited by DanS on 07-08-2005 at 04:28

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quote:
Originally posted by pchang
And hence, the economists estimates that it takes 150,000 new jobs per month to keep up with population growth.....

As for builders vs. sellers - you will find the same ratios for almost every product there is. How many people do you think sell digital cameras vs. build them?


Cars take considerably more people to build than digital cameras, so you'd expect the ratio to be lower.

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
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quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell What does "seasonally adjusted" mean for labor statistics?


Simple explanation:

Suppose you have data on how many people are employed in Arkansas every month. You notice that every December over a period of years the number of people employed goes up by 10 percent due to Christmas retail sales. If employment goes up by 11 percent this December, then employment is up by 11 percent on an unadjusted basis, and by 11 - 10 = 1 percent on a seasonally adjusted basis. The 10 percent is what we expect to see every December anyway, so the 1 percent seasonally adjusted is the additional employment beyond what we would normally expect to see.


quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell total nonfarm seasonally adjusted: AR added 3,600 jobs

total nonfarm not adjusted: AR lost 700 jobs

This is the above situation in reverse. AR lost 700 jobs unadjusted. But they normally lose 700 + 3,600 = 4,300 this month for whatever reason. This means that there is additional employment of 4,300 - 700 = 3,600 beyond what we would normally expect. 3,600 fewer people lost jobs than they normally do this time of year in AR.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS


That's only a temporary phenomenon and would only become permanent if OPEC doesn't get with it and invest in much more production.

The percentage of oil used that is supplied by OPEC is going up, not down. That's the long-term trend. And OPEC hasn't stopped being a cartel, last I checked, even if it misjudged demand this once.


I don't know DanS.

It seems to have been "temporary" for the past few years.

With China growing at breakneck speed, it only will get worse, unless we invade the moon and get the oil fields under our control.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
The percentage of oil used that is supplied by OPEC is going up, not down. That's the long-term trend. And OPEC hasn't stopped being a cartel, last I checked, even if it misjudged demand this once.


I dispute your assertion.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Basically, in the wake of the dual oil crises of the 1970s, non-opec production reached a high of 71% of total production in the early 1980s. Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s opec production recovered to the point where the split is now 60-40, where it has remaned fairly stable for the last decade.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Though of course OPEC's reserves (conventional reserves, that is) are so much larger than non-OPEC conventional reserves that without such unconventional sources as the tarsands the day is quite possibly rapidly approaching that non-OPEC suppliers will not be able to keep up.

For instance, the US and UK have basically pumped themselves dry, and cannot hope to maintain previous levels of production.

Saudi Arabia is sitting on giant amounts of reserves, and can continue pumping at the current rate for a hundred years.

 
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