06-08-2005 03:48									#1
	CTP2 crashes - please help Increase Your PM Length

Hi everyone,

my friend and I have experienced a lot of frustration because CTP2 keeps crashing on us.

We have:
Patch 1.11
Apolyton Mod

I am attaching the latest saved game (one quick save and one full save).

The crashes began to happen about ten turns before the current save. The current save is with me (Polish) as host. When my player was the host, the game would crash on the beginning of his turn (French). My game did not crash in this case.

When I am the host, after I and my turn and he is up, the game crashed on both machines.

He has Windows 2000 at home (used compatibility mode), but we tried it now with two Windows 98 computers at my place over a LAN network, and still the same crashes.

Additionally, we have now also tried the latest (8/2/05 ) playtest version of the source code, but this crashed also.

I also tried /reloadslic before hitting Enter - still the same thing.

Do you have any advice for us, as we are quite desperate about this whole situation.

Thank you,

Ivan

Attachment: ctp2_saves_ivanbuto.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	06-08-2005 17:52									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Ivan read some of the threads already about MP crashes. Dont play MP with Apolyton pack (or AI players) or use the playtest.

Playtest MP is being worked on.

	06-08-2005 18:33									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Maq,

I have actually tried to read as much as possible; perhaps I have missed something.

Since there are only two of us, playing without AIs would have been much less fun - is it really impossible to get through any MP game with AI players present?

Also, I didn't know that it wasn't advised to play MP with the Apolyton Pack mod. Would the Cradle mod be more reliable?

That being said, is there any way to figure out why the game crashed, and is there any way that we can resume playing this game?

	06-08-2005 19:44									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by ivanbuto Since there are only two of us, playing without AIs would have been much less fun - is it really impossible to get through any MP game with AI players present?

No its not, and its not certain that AIs will cause problems in all games, but it certainly eliminates the possible cause in your mind if you play without them.

I always play MP games with the only aim to beat the other human (or humanS if your 2v2 humans), so the AI is just delaying the inevitable human war and often unbalancing the game, but i can understand your reasons to play with AI.

quote: Also, I didn't know that it wasn't advised to play MP with the Apolyton Pack mod. Would the Cradle mod be more reliable?

Cradle (and CtC and MedMod and WaW and AoM) would probably be even worse, since it contains more scripts for other features, who knows what will happen, you'd be playtesting it rather than playing to complete a game.

quote: That being said, is there any way to figure out why the game crashed, and is there any way that we can resume playing this game?

Ive looked at your save but cant see anything obvious.

You might have trouble loading the game now because there are incomplete tile improvements on yours (and AI players) cities.

In the FAQ thread:

quote: Q63 Why does my Multiplayer save game sometimes get corrupted and wont re-load and crash when we try to resume? A63 One possible reason for this is because when you saved the Multiplayer game a player is terraforming on a tile. To avoid this bug DONT save a Multiplayer game (that you plan to load later) when anyone is terraforming. Q64 Sometimes when i reload in multiplayer the game will resynch EVERY turn, for a few turns. A64 This is because a player was building a tile improvement when the game was saved, and the game will resynch until the tile improvement is finished next time you load the game. Dont save the multiplayer game when someone is in the middle of terraforming or building a tile improvement.

	06-08-2005 20:21									#5
	Tired of ads?

Thanks for the responses.

I guess what we should do now is get through the next few turns with the game crashing every turn, and then save once all tile improvements are complete, and see what happens.

Would trying to continue the game without the Apolyton Pack be an option, or does that lead to corruption?

And lastly, if we do want to play with the AI, do you recommend simply the patched CTP2 - it was my understanding that the AI is very bad in that case.

	06-08-2005 20:40									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Continue the game only with the mod you started it with, in all cases.

The AI is very bad unmodded, it would just be a sitting duck.

If youre determined to play using AIs (and presumably with the Apolyton Pack), if you continue to get problems you could try disabling some of the new code (for a new game, dont change midway) that arent essential to a good (warring) AI.

In ...\ctp2_data\default\gamedata the file APOL_main.slc open with notepad (or txt editor) and comment out the ones you dont want to use.

quote: #include //"APOL_capturecity.slc" #include "APOL_diplomod.slc" #include "APOL_airunit.slc" #include "APOL_capital.slc" #include "APOL_soundfix.slc" #include "APOL_ComImpSForAIs.slc" //#include "APOL_FortsForAIs.slc" //#include "APOL_KillCityOption.slc" #include "APOL_pw_cheat.slc" #include "APOL_slics.slc" #include "APOL_frenzy.slc"

The above shows disabling forts for Ais, killcity options and capture city options, these are the ones id try disabling first.

	08-08-2005 06:28									#7
	Got spare money?

Hi again Maq,

we have now played about 20 turns, where the game crashed every single turn and we had to reload. What we were hoping for is that once our tile improvements are complete, we could do a new save, and then load that.

However, it seems that my friend (French) has a terraform in process on a forest square near the city Bratislava, and in the 20+ turns we have played, the "work in progress" icon has not disappeared from that square! Could you please have a look at that? Could that be the cause of the problem, by any chance?

(We were not able to save with French loading as host, even when I left the and he took over and saved.... still, I hope you can look at the save.)

Thanks,

Ivan

Attachment: ctp2_saves_ivanbuto.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	08-08-2005 07:01									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

That unterraformed tile next to Bratislava definitely seems like the problem.

I tried to change it with the cheat menu but even that caused the game to crash to desktop when i pressed on the exact tile.

Then i tried to terraform the squares around it and go over it with a large brush but the terrain changed (to plains) but unfortunately the terraform in progress icon stayed, and would continue to crash.

Also tried to play a turn in SP but that crashed the game too.

Then tried reloading but its not saving the terraform as complete, it just crashes the game before it can.

Do you have an earlier save (preferably not an autosave) before the French built that terraforming? If so you could try going back to that.

And for anyone interested in the crash information when i tried it (replace the terrain with cheat menu) with the playtest:

code:

  0x004aec19  [?GameObj_Get@@YAPBVGAMEOBJ@@PAV1@K@Z + 0x9]
  0x004b2ea8  [?Get@ObjPool@@QBEPBVGAMEOBJ@@ABVID@@@Z + 0x18]
  0x004d423e  [?RemoveAllReferences@TerrainImprovement@@QAEXXZ + 0x1e]
  0x004d4211  [?KillImprovement@TerrainImprovement@@QAEXXZ + 0x11]
  0x0051e410  [?CutImprovements@World@@QAEXABVMapPoint@@@Z + 0x130]
  0x00442431  [?HandleCheat@TiledMap@@QAEXAAVMapPoint@@@Z + 0x3e1]
  0x00442a8d  [?Click@TiledMap@@QAEXPAUaui_MouseEvent@@H@Z + 0xfd]
  0x0062dfe9  [?Idle@Background@@UAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@XZ + 0x89]
  0x0061b278  [?Process@aui_UI@@UAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@XZ + 0x18]
  0x0040bf52  [?ProcessUI@CivApp@@QAEJKAAK@Z + 0x1a2]
  0x0040c34a  [?Process@CivApp@@QAEJXZ + 0x12a]
  0x00406f4e  [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x39e]
  0x00406a05  [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
  0x007bb5fc  [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
  0x77e8141a  [__onexitbegin + 0x7735f5c2]

Last edited by Maquiladora on 08-08-2005 at 07:08

	08-08-2005 09:54									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks for all your efforts. So I guess currently there is no way that this game can be "redeemed".... We do have an earlier save, but it's almost at the beginning of the game, so we wouldn't go back all the way.

I guess we'll have to start a new one and always save before starting terraforming. Unless you have any other ideas how it might be possible to get it to not crash at this point?

I understand that in the future we might want to avoid loading a save where tile improvements are in progress. I have two questions here-

1) What about the AI? Can corruption occur also because of the AI's tile improvements in progress?

2) Is terraforming more "risky" than roads, farmland, etc. from the standpoint of game stability?

Thanks,

Ivan

	08-08-2005 15:15									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I did go through a period(about 2years ago!) of playing LAN games of CTP2.

The setup we used was 2 players + 2-3 AI(for cannonfodder) on medium size map - i seem to remember using more AI's - but the resynchs got crazy.

The PC's were PII 400's 64/128MB Win98se.(use your most powerfull pc as the host as this seemed to reduce resyncs - in our case it was the PC with the most memmory as the specs were identical).

we used CTP2+ 1.1patch only(no mods, although i did do some experimental 2player lan with Craddle, and it seemed no different as far as i played that game).

dont use the autosave option, select the right time to save instead(as little building as possible going on), as this may help cut down on the crashing problem your having.

We usualy ended the games we played around the middle-ages - trying to finish the games in one sitting over the weekend, but we did save and carry on games - just didn't need to do it often as with MP you get a clear winner much earlier than in a SP game.

As for question 1, re the AI tile improvements - i expect the answer would be yes, i do remember they also would dissapear between saves etc, so would also cause problems eventualy.

	08-08-2005 18:38									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by ivanbuto 1) What about the AI? Can corruption occur also because of the AI's tile improvements in progress?

The resynch (until the tile imp is complete) would occur only to the player with the tile improvement unfinished, not all players, so we can only assume this would have no effect on the humans in the game (as it doesnt with other bystanding humans), or it could produce some weird effect on the AI.

quote: 2) Is terraforming more "risky" than roads, farmland, etc. from the standpoint of game stability?

It could be if youre using AI's, but if only humans its fine if you monitor when youre saving the game. A quick "any terraforming left to finish?" and if not then save. You should still save frequently anyway, every 10 turns or so.

Of course i have no idea what the effects of unfinished terraforming from the AI would produce, since i assume it cant be crashed, it might crash the host or all clients and the host.

Also the crash you got was caused by terraforming by a human, so it could be nothing to do with AI's and perhaps caused by SAP. Ive personally never seen an unfinished terraform like that in the unmodded game.

If its just reloading that becomes a problem, try and finish it one sitting like CoT said. I think the game you posted would take about 3-6hrs for 2 humans (plus the AI's) depending on how good the players are.

	11-08-2005 03:28									#12
	Tired of ads?

in a game i had with another human + 6 AI's i at some point kept crashing (being client) after 2 resyncs. when we both had no terraforming or tile improvements going on i didn't crash or resync at all. this was with patch 1.1 and the apolyton pack.

seems like tile improvement is really what causes the crashing even tho we didn't load any save from that game before it started happening.

that we run the game on xp and fast machines is probably the real issue tho. i'm on a p4 2.8GHz (fsb800) with an 9800XT and my father a p4 3.4GHz and a GF 6800GT

we thought or running a dual boot (98SE) or emulate it with vmware or so but it seems like we're just screwed :/

	11-08-2005 04:01									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Anahka when we both had no terraforming or tile improvements going on i didn't crash or resync at all. this was with patch 1.1 and the apolyton pack.

Does this mean that at some point a crash might be almost inevitable, BUT it could be avoided if players do not terraform or do tile improvements?

quote: seems like tile improvement is really what causes the crashing even tho we didn't load any save from that game before it started happening.

Even if you loaded from a save without tile improvements, and then started doing tile improvements, the game would crash?

quote: that we run the game on xp and fast machines is probably the real issue tho. i'm on a p4 2.8GHz (fsb800) with an 9800XT and my father a p4 3.4GHz and a GF 6800GT we thought or running a dual boot (98SE) or emulate it with vmware or so but it seems like we're just screwed :/

Somehow I'm beginning to think that the OS or computer speed does not necessarily have an influence on crashes, it least that seems to be the case in the game I posted.

	11-08-2005 04:20									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by ivanbuto Does this mean that at some point a crash might be almost inevitable, BUT it could be avoided if players do not terraform or do tile improvements?

To put this in perspective, because this tile improvement thing seems to be getting out of hand... Ive played at least 50 MP games and its only crashed once where i didnt know what the problem was (and thus could not be avoided).

All these games i played with no AI's, 2-4 human players and no big mod (apol pack, cradle, medmod, call to conquest), only small custom mods to map size, science costs, terrain values, things like that to balance the game.

Every single MP game ive tried with a big mod on this site (cradle, call to conquest, medmod) has crashed in MP and not related to a problem I knew before, this is not bad mouthing those mods, theyre simply NOT designed with MP in mind.

If youre playing with a mod in MP (doesnt necessarily have to be with AI's even), if you get problems then the first place to be looking for the problem is the mod or a particular part of it.