06-08-2005 12:05									#1
	Is it even worth considering to negotiate with the Horde? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Paddy caught me online via MSN tonight

He says there is a huge army about to invade our territory. Do I believe him? I have no idea, but perhaps that's true. Why wouldn't they when we are in this weakened state.

He asked if a deal could be struck. I responded with "what could we even offer? how could there be any trust in the deal? why would you want to stop now when you say you can destroy us?"

Well, i don't know the motives. I know there's the trust issue. But we have an A-M issue and I mentioned to paddy that we are surrounded by enemies.

He says he could do something about A-M. Interesting.

So, I offer this information up as a possibility. Could we use this to survive, get revenge, etc? Perhpas nothing else but to buy time.

He says they would want techs, gold, and slaves.

	06-08-2005 12:12									#2
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oh, and by the way. He mentioned something that had me wondering.

Paddy said that he's friends with some of us on this team and that he's unhappy with certain people on our team for expressing an opinion about him in our private Bab forums. He got this information from someone on our team.

So...perhaps its nothing, or perhaps private conversations here are not private. Just doesn't seem quite right to me for some reason. People need a place to blow off steam, no? I thought the key word here was private

If this leak did occur, don't you think that Babylonian individuals are just absolutely crushed in the BoH private forums. Too bad we don't have any friends on that side to hear just how bad it is...perhaps that's for the better actually.

	06-08-2005 19:44									#3
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I wonder what other information has gotten to him, from one of us.

Well, I'm definately not the one, and I think that it's some of my comments that he's talking about.

E_T

	06-08-2005 19:50									#4
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Tech, well we are in no position to do it. Atleast for some time.

Gold, lets start sending our surplus to LB and they send it back when they are done. That way, we don't show that in our treasury.

slaves - we lost several workers and our worker pump (PoA was going to be the new one), with GoT going over to 4 turn settler pump. And will need a lot more soon. We might be able to work out something, like send them one every 4 turns or something, but that would require PoA back.

E_T

	06-08-2005 20:18									#5
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I agree about the gold to LB. Smart move no matter what we decide to do.

I'll float a trial balloon to Paddy along the lines of if we get PoA back then we can work out some things to send you like slaves and gold --- and eventually techs. But we need to stop A-M now.

Again, like every other situation we have discussed we have little to lose.

	07-08-2005 04:42									#6
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We have little to lose and a lot to gain.

I say kisss his Australian Arse and see if we can get them to help with A-M. Promise him what you want just tell him in our current state its gonna take a while.

This way we can get revenge against A-M.

In the meantime we try and get our CIV back together and build some units maybe when the Horde is busy with A-M and Euph., maybe just maybe we can stab them in the back and grab a couple of there cities setting them back.

Be nice, be supportive, kiss his arse, he has the power not us.

Disreguard your emotions and keep a straight face.

On the issue of someone saying something say we would be happy to get him an apology if we could be given more details. And just remind him its a game, and we are all taking it that way

The Horde has extended there hand to us take it now willfully.

We can decide later to bite the hand thats feeds us if the oppurtunity presents itself..........

	07-08-2005 04:59									#7
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I am wary of the Horde, like all of us. So let us tread carefully, but sending the Gold to LB also seems sensible.

	07-08-2005 13:08									#8
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Trust is interesting. We need help against AM, that is true. How much gold could we send, or do we ignore that and send only to Lost Boys?

Shogun, do you believe Paddy in him getting information from in here? or is he fishing with you?

	07-08-2005 18:48									#9
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planet, he mentioned a few names and pieces of information, not connected to our strategy, (more to do with the human interaction aspect to this demogame) that almost surely came from our private forum.

I think he's truly concerned with how people view him and his teammates. On the other hand, he doesn't feel that BoH has done anything wrong.

	08-08-2005 00:18									#10
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I just chatted with Paddy. He said if we want to pitch an idea to them, to contact PLATO tonight. Are we interested to trying?

	08-08-2005 00:21									#11
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we can offer Gold now. we can offer future science, and the production of one of our cities (taken back from A-M) as a slave pump for BoH...

Paddy is fascinated that we were able to get DR to back off for 75 gold. That's what he thinks the deal is anyway. Is it?

	08-08-2005 01:54									#12
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Yes we are interested in trying to pitch to Paddy/ Plato because we have already agree our stratgey is survival.

	08-08-2005 02:15									#13
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The poll thus far says the goal is revenge, this could get us our revenge against A-M.

	09-08-2005 00:08									#14
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I have chatted with Paddy, it's been about 2 weeks since our last chat. I thought he was fishing with me too. The only times I brought up names was to deny what he was saying. He would say things like, "I bet so and so is saying such and such". I'd say something like, "No. He's actually been sticking up for you." He did seem truely concerned about his rep and the way people viewed him. I told him that Babylon was pissed about betrayal and many were confused, but that this was in game and not personal.

I actually stopped chatting with him when he got on me about the whole "whored" thing. He doesn't seem to think anyone expect for the Horde can be hostile in posts or emails. He really doesn't think he or BOH has done anything wrong, yet I think if he is still fishing for info on this, his conscience is bothering him.

I don't believe that I have revealed anything negative about anyone here.

	09-08-2005 00:09									#15
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oh and breathing is always good.

	10-08-2005 12:34									#16
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Who is talking to BoH? Are you having success?

	10-08-2005 20:18									#17
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I replied to him. What is on the table?

	11-08-2005 10:58									#18
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I beleave this to be a bluff, on BoH's part, to get something from us. Please, please be very careful.

E_T

	11-08-2005 19:12									#19
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I replied to all, and posted my reply in the BOH thread.

Is there a proposal of any kind? Should I talk with the Horde?

	12-08-2005 07:01									#20
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Skorb, Take what we know and run with it. Take the Initative and do it.

E_T

	16-08-2005 03:48									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner planet, he mentioned a few names and pieces of information, not connected to our strategy, (more to do with the human interaction aspect to this demogame) that almost surely came from our private forum. I think he's truly concerned with how people view him and his teammates. On the other hand, he doesn't feel that BoH has done anything wrong.

Any sense of who said what?

I seem to recall a chat where I defended E_T pretty strenuously.

If you want, I can talk to to him about it.

	17-08-2005 01:06									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

After my latest discussion with the Horde (Paddy and PLATO), I spoke with Paddy.

Paddy seems very concerned about the way he is being viewed. He seems afraid that people are confusing his maniacal dictator persona with the lovable Paddy.

I think he thought I was much more upset about the "Whored" thing than I really was. That's all been smoothed over. He mentioned that others where saying things about him and asking him to leave the game. I asked who and he accused me of playing games with him.

I would just drop it. Paddy is a good guy as far as I can tell. He likes Role Play. IMO, when he gets confused by it, he accuses others of not understanding role play. I know that now, and that's fine.

I don't blame him or others for the confusion. It's easy enough to get confused by Role Play playing face to face. It's hard to follow online via text when everyone already is using a fake name, add to that different roles for different games and you can have the mess that we face now.

So, again. I would just drop the subject.

Details above were from a private chat with Paddy, but I don't think he could get too upset about me posting support for him.

	17-08-2005 08:10									#23
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OK. Understood. We will go with the flow.

	17-08-2005 09:00									#24
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BOH is a no show. I will see if I can contact them tomorrow.

Just like the Horde, everything on their schedule.

	17-08-2005 10:17									#25
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Let them stew.... But your doing a fantastic job, so don't give up

Remember, they will try to bully you, so don't let that bother you. I know it's hard, but remember, they are the agressor here, not us. And granted, we can be just as dead, be it them or AM doing the killing. So, we really have nothing to lose. Go with your instincts/gut feelings and run with it.

Remember that....

E_T

	17-08-2005 16:43									#26
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to what E_T said.