11-08-2005 10:59									#61
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And how long have they been doing that Asher? It's amazing that they've been emulating anglo-american culture, but yet baseball started to take off in the early 60s and soccer took off in the early 90s.

Sorry Asher, try again.

	11-08-2005 10:59									#62
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I just read DanS' last two posts, which seem to explain a good deal of the attraction that baseball holds. It's very much a cultural and social thing, so it seems.

Just don't go calling it a sport.

Imran and I will just have to agree to disagree. Maybe I shouldn't get too involved in a discussion of baseball, at least not before I've actually watched it enough to know what's going on.

But then Asher has, and he seems sensible enough.

	11-08-2005 11:00									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And how long have they been doing that Asher? It's amazing that they've been emulating anglo-american culture, but yet baseball started to take off in the early 60s and soccer took off in the early 90s. Sorry Asher, try again.

What does that have to do with anything?

You may as well argue that since Tamogachi toys came out in the late 90s that invalidates my point.

Latin America and Japan look at US popculture with envy and emulate a lot of it. That's just a plain observable fact, and nothing more. It's not surprising that a popular US sport that doesn't require much in the way of equipment becomes popular there.

	11-08-2005 11:01									#64
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Regarding the statistics, you don't have to like them or even understand them much in order to enjoy the game of baseball. Everybody who likes baseball may like different aspects of the game.

For me, the statistics began with baseball cards that I bought as a little kid. On the front is an action picture of the player. On the back is the player's career stats by year. A little kid can remember an awful lot of statistics. So it's all very nostalgic for me.

In any event, I'm not sure whether Americans' love of statistics preceded baseball or is the result of baseball. As a student of history, I would have to guess that Americans had an out of the ordinary love of statistics well before baseball was invented, what with the almanacs that were colonial American specialties, etc.

Last edited by DanS on 11-08-2005 at 11:07

	11-08-2005 11:03									#65
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Why don't you ask Hueij? He's from around your neck of the woods (Netherlands) and he loves baseball. He keeps bothering me to bring back my Bull Durham quote in my signature .

I don't know his background, but he isn't an Amero-phile from what I've read of his (so no need to try to fit into the cultural and social thing), and I don't see him as following tradition (seems to have as much 'tradition' for him as it did for me... my parents aren't even from the US and I started getting interested in baseball around my 15th birthday).

	11-08-2005 11:04									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why don't you ask Hueij? He's from around your neck of the woods (Netherlands) and he loves baseball. He keeps bothering me to bring back my Bull Durham quote in my signature . I don't know his background, but he isn't an Amero-phile from what I've read of his (so no need to try to fit into the cultural and social thing), and I don't see him as following tradition (seems to have as much 'tradition' for him as it did for me... my parents aren't even from the US and I started getting interested in baseball around my 15th birthday).

This effect is referred to as the "melting pot of America".

	11-08-2005 11:04									#67
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quote: Latin America and Japan look at US popculture with envy and emulate a lot of it.

I wonder what happened to the 'anglo' part of that 'culture' .

	11-08-2005 11:06									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I wonder what happened to the 'anglo' part of that 'culture' .

Do you also wonder about scissors and peanut butter with sporks?

	11-08-2005 11:07									#69
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No, but I do wonder about Canadians who tend to avoid questions.

	11-08-2005 11:14									#70
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Or the Americans who ask questions that are ambiguous.

quote: I wonder what happened to the 'anglo' part of that 'culture' .

Define "that 'culture' -- are you referring to 'anglo' culture in the US?

I think a certain rebellion happened which may've curbed much of that.

	11-08-2005 11:14									#71
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Regarding the Japanese, please note that the game became popular in Japan during the Meiji Restoration -- decades before WWII, when American pop culture became an everyday thing for the Japanese. They appear to have adopted the game without all of the American cultural baggage.

The spread of baseball in Asia can be traced more to the Japanese than Americans.

Last edited by DanS on 11-08-2005 at 11:24

	11-08-2005 11:16									#72
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quote: Define "that 'culture'

quote: originally posted by Asher they're emulating anglo-american culture

It's nice when you are purposely being obtuse when you have painted yourself in a corner.

	11-08-2005 11:19									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Define "that 'culture' quote: originally posted by Asher they're emulating anglo-american culture It's nice when you are purposely being obtuse when you have painted yourself in a corner.

That wasn't in the quote you provided. You need to provide the proper context when you ask a question. You responded to a statement involving 3 cultures and then referred to "that" culture -- that's a poorly worded sentence that is ambiguous. As a lawyer, unambiguous wording should be second nature to you. It is to me, and that's just because I work with compilers and hate ambiguous grammars and languages.

And the "anglo" part is referring to the sport you call "soccer" that is becoming popular in Japan.

Next question?

	11-08-2005 11:19									#74
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Hueij being a follower of baseball is interesting indeed. Quite extraordinary for a European, I honestly have never heard of anyone else on this continent who had the same inclination.

We have informal games that could be regarded as similar to baseball, which are mostly played by kids, and I guess some people could go on to pick up on American baseball as adults by extension, I've just never heard of anyone who did.

	11-08-2005 11:22									#75
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Asher: It's nice when you are purposely being obtuse when you have painted yourself in a corner.

---

And like I said soccer has recently become popular, where was this anglo-american culture popularity back in the 60s, 70s, 80s... etc..

quote: originally posted by DanS Regarding the Japanese, please note that the game became popular in Japan during the Meiji Restoration -- decades before WWII, when American pop culture became an everyday thing for the Japanese.

Interesting, the Japanese professional league had to take a year off because of World War II. Though I'd say it hit its stride when Sadaharu Oh was crushing the ball, but yes, been around in Japan almost as long as its been around in the US.

	11-08-2005 11:24									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Interesting, the Japanese professional league had to take a year off because of World War II. Though I'd say it hit its stride when Sadaharu Oh was crushing the ball, but yes, been around in Japan almost as long as its been around in the US.

So you may say it's a comfortable tradition, then...

	11-08-2005 11:26									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Hueij being a follower of baseball is interesting indeed. Quite extraordinary for a European, I honestly have never heard of anyone else on this continent who had the same inclination. We have informal games that could be regarded as similar to baseball, which are mostly played by kids, and I guess some people could go on to pick up on American baseball as adults by extension, I've just never heard of anyone who did.

Really?

http://www.baseballeurope.com

http://www.eurobaseball2005.cz/info/index.php?lang=E

	11-08-2005 11:28									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So you may say it's a comfortable tradition, then...

Definetly not when it was introduced. The biggest fallacy with the 'tradition' argument is it wasn't popular at one point of time and became popular later... tradition can't explain that at all. And if it can't explain that, then it becomes piss poor for explaining why baseball is popular today as well (since it can't explain the reasons for the original boom in popularity of the sport).

	11-08-2005 11:47									#79
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One thing baseball could do to improve its entertainment value: land mines in the outfield.

	11-08-2005 11:58									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Really?

Really.

I've never heard of it. I've heard of people playing cricket here (not many, but they exist), but never baseball, not even on the fan level. Your mentioning Hueij's being a fan is the first instance of this.

American football on the other hand has some (limited) following here, and I believe it's growing. But I imagine you're aware of that already.

	11-08-2005 12:28									#81
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And of course the crucial point remains, if baseball is such a great and exciting sport, why on earth did that guy get sooo bored that he decided it would be fun to throw himself off the stand.

In soccer, you only get people diving by accident, stemming from severe alcohol intake, and over-excitement about the game.

	11-08-2005 12:39									#82
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I think this only goes to show how pathetic the Yankees' fans are, and how pathetic they are this season

Yankees' fans watching the team that will beat them in the ALCS (if they get that far) ... plenty of suicidal fans then

	11-08-2005 12:40									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Winston And of course the crucial point remains, if baseball is such a great and exciting sport, why on earth did that guy get sooo bored that he decided it would be fun to throw himself off the stand. In soccer, you only get people diving by accident, stemming from severe alcohol intake, and over-excitement about the game.

He was over-intoxicated. I'm not shocked, honestly - climbing the stairs at Comiskey (may it never be called anything else ) makes me wonder why we don't have a daily death or three from intoxicated people climbing impossibly steep stairs

	12-08-2005 01:01									#84
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I still like my idea about foul balls. Sure the pitcher won't have to throw as many pitches negating the need for middle and closing relievers. But who needs em'.

Foul balls should bounce off of glass back into the field of play.

	12-08-2005 01:42									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Winston And of course the crucial point remains, if baseball is such a great and exciting sport, why on earth did that guy get sooo bored that he decided it would be fun to throw himself off the stand.

If soccer is such a great and exciting sport, why on earth do they get sooo bored that they decide it would be fun to streak naked onto the pitch?

And Dis' proposal is reason #20394 why Dis should be executed and none of his ideas be ever listened to... Ever.

	12-08-2005 01:46									#86
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Arena baseball!

	12-08-2005 01:46									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And Dis' proposal is reason #20394 why Dis should be executed and none of his ideas be ever listened to... Ever.

Do you actually pay attention to Dis and take him seriously?

Why?

	12-08-2005 01:52									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Do you actually pay attention to Dis and take him seriously? Why?

Did you actually read my post?

	12-08-2005 01:54									#89
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Yes.

Despite the fact that you claim no one should listen to his ideas, you clearly not only listened to it, but responded!

	12-08-2005 02:46									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Do you actually pay attention to Dis and take him seriously? Why?

that is a serious statement. Foul ball suck in baseball. Sure it wears the pitcher down and allows the batter to stay in the game. But it's boring as hell for the fans (unless you manage to catch one). Wacthing 10 foul balls in a row is not my idea of fun. And think of how many balls they probably go through in a year. They could save money on balls. (though putting up that high of a glass (plastic actually) would exceed the savings).

but if you guys want to spend money to watch balls fly out of the field of play and nothing happen, by all means.