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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 07:38
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http://www.canada.com/national/stor...10-f3d9ed05925f
quote:
Key NAFTA softwood ruling favours Canada

Sandra Cordon
Canadian Press

Wednesday, August 10, 2005

OTTAWA -- Canada is claiming a major victory in the softwood lumber dispute with the U.S. following a key NAFTA panel ruling, and is demanding quick repayment of billions of dollars in penalties collected by Washington.

An extraordinary challenge panel under the North American Free Trade Agreement has dismissed American claims that an earlier NAFTA ruling in favour of Canada violated trade rules.

Canadian lumber industry spokesmen are already claiming this is the final blow that should end the dispute and are demanding quick return of the $5 billion in penalties so far paid to Washington.

But Washington quickly signalled isn't giving up the fight.

The U.S. industry has claimed that Canadian producers are unfairly subsidized through low fees paid to governments for timber - a claim the Canadian industry has long denied.

''We are extremely pleased that the (panel) dismissed the claims of the United States,'' Trade Minister Jim Peterson said in a statement.

''This is a binding decision that clearly eliminates the basis for U.S.-imposed duties on Canadian softwood lumber.

''We fully expect the United States to abide by this ruling, stop collecting duties and refund the duties collected over the past three years.''

Trade officials said they hope Wednesday's win will hasten a negotiated end to the dispute that began more than four years ago and has seriously threatened Canada's $10-billion softwood export sector.

But Washington isn't accepting that conclusion, insisting more negotiations are needed before the longrunning dispute can be wrapped up.

''We are, of course, disappointed with the (panel's) decision, but it will have no impact on the antidumping and countervailing duty orders,'' said Neena Moorjani, press secretary for the U.S. Trade Representative, Rob Portman.

''We continue to have concerns about Canadian pricing and forestry practices. We believe that a negotiated solution is in the best interests of both the United States and Canada, and that litigation will not resolve the dispute.''

Peterson and Portman, his American counterpart, have resumed talks aimed at negotiating a solution to the softwood dispute. They're expected to meet again as early as next week.

A trade official said the Americans still have some options outside NAFTA, including a formal constitutional challenge.

Canada has been fighting the combined countervail and antidumping duties through legal channels as well as in high-level negotiations since Washington began collecting duties in 2002.

Although Canada has won many of legal battles under the NAFTA, as well as at the World Trade Organization, that has had little real effect in the dispute.

Still, it has helped to lower the value of the combined duties paid by lumber exporters down to about 21 per cent from their high of 27 per cent when duties were first imposed in May 2002.

That's when the U.S. Commerce Department first accepted American lumber producers' claims that Canadian softwood was unfairly subsidized.

Since then, trade officials and politicians from both countries have tried to negotiate a new softwood deal, most recently meeting in late July with plans to resume talks in Ottawa later this month.

Canadian producers sell about $10 billion worth of spruce, pine and fir lumber a year to the U.S. home-construction and renovation sectors.

© The Canadian Press 2005


quote:
We believe that a negotiated solution is in the best interests of both the United States and Canada, and that litigation will not resolve the dispute.


IOWs, 'we get our asses handed to us everytime this goes before a competent body, therefore please give in and agree to trade restrictions.'

NOT!

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 07:43 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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**** 'em. It's time to start levelling retaliatory tariffs on US goods.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 07:44
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be - aggressive
b e aggressive
b e - a g g r e s s i v e!

No I didn't read the post, just the title, I feel like fighting YEAAA bring it on .. someone!

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 07:44 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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It's been decades that they've been pulling this horseshit. They lose every challenge. They obviously have no intention of playing by the rules until we start providing incentives to do so.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 07:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
It's been decades that they've been pulling this horseshit. They lose every challenge. They obviously have no intention of playing by the rules until we start providing incentives to do so.


True, unfortunately.

You think most Canadians are willing to pay the price in pain to get their attention? That's the thing I have my doubts about.

However, if we really wanted to, a possible first shot would be to embargo wood products going to the US until they agree to live by the rules that we set out among ourselves and the panels that were set up to arbitrate disputes.

I wonder how the New York Times would react to a sudden tripling in price of newsprint, and the US home building industry grinding to a halt. Would that get their attention?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 08:02
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I wonder how much attention the major American forestry companies, who are up to their armpits in investment in Canada's forests, would get.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 08:18
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Got spare money?

Rumour from the West Coast...

One of the biggest operations in BC actually wanted tarrifs. They own a lot of land in the US. They did two things with the tarrif.

They cut more and shipped more wood from Canada to the US to make up for smaller margins post tarrif. The higher price of lumber in the US because of the tariff made this work.

They made a killing on their lumber situated in the US. With every home built costing more, due to the tarriff, they made a killing on their American land.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 08:23
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The best part of this whole thing is that American home buyers are the ones who are paying the highest net price. There are perhaps a few fewer people employed in BC, Quebec and New Brunswick, but the average Torontonian isn't feeling this a bit. That may help explain our weak response.

OTOH, every American who wants to buy a home is paying for it, ultimately.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 10:11 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Good show.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 10:19 Visit Asher's homepage!
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For **** sake, it's wood. Who cares.

Bunch of BC hippies out of a job, they should move to Alberta and slave in the SALT MINES AND OIL FIELDS like real men!

* Asher Tim Taylor grunt.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 10:41 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Tim Taylor sucked dick in prison.

-FACT

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 11:06
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But there are no steamrooms in prison. That's the difference.

-FACT

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 11:21
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I support your fight.

That said, the cost of building a house compared to the cost of the land it is built on in the US is such that it now makes more economic sense to tear down an existing house and build a larger one than to simply renovate the smaller house.

Riesstiu IV is offline Riesstiu IV
Settler

Nov 2003
time: 05:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 11:22
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We don't want any filthy pinko commie lumber from Canada. I'll gladly take burnt, unstable, and termite infested Texas lumber over bleeding heart liberal lumber from Canada!

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 11:23
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In other words, the price of the wood means squat.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 11:25 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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IIRC they were saying that the tariffs added ~3000$ to the price of every home built in the US.

Which is not huge when talking about houses, but it is certainly a significant factor.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 12:50 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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As long as this isn't about MTBE.

Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 13:09
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Ah, Americans. Playing by the rules only when they feel like it.

Come and join the EU Canada. At least here, the rules screw everyone over equally.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 13:20 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Starchild
Ah, Americans. Playing by the rules only when they feel like it.


It's good to be the king.

Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 17:38
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


It's good to be the king.


Tell that to the current French monarch.

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 17:59 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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Stupid cheating Americans....

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 19:37 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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Free Trade

USA

Flubber is offline Flubber
Emperor
With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 20:45
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Maybe Canada should place an export duty on all our oil and natural gas flowing into the US-- If the US can ignore NAFTA rules to rake off additional money, why can't we??

Wezil is offline Wezil
King
Ontario, Canada
Nov 1999
time: 02:07
  Old Post 11-08-2005 21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
Maybe Canada should place an export duty on all our oil and natural gas flowing into the US-- If the US can ignore NAFTA rules to rake off additional money, why can't we??


Nah, just lower the pressure. We'll get their attention TODAY.

Sadly, as NYE points out, Torontonians aren't affected thus our Feds are under little pressure to fight for our interests.

Max Webster is offline Max Webster
Prince

Jul 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 11-08-2005 22:24
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quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP
Stupid cheating Americans....


Some of them are, but some are like me. Decent peace loving compassionate, law abbiding folk.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 13-08-2005 08:27
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http://www.canada.com/news/national...b7-4561195e2d67
quote:
Campbell urges PM to turn up heat on U.S. in softwood trade war

Judy Monchuk
Canadian Press


Friday, August 12, 2005

BANFF, Alta. (CP) - B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell has told Prime Minister Paul Martin to push back against the United States in the softwood lumber dispute - and that could include threatening to withhold resources.

"I think Canada has to be very firm and remind the Americans of our mutual benefit from trade," Campbell said Friday after speaking with Martin on Thursday night. "My message to the prime minister is to take this to the highest level and point this out," Campbell said as provincial and territorial leaders wrapped up three days of meetings.

Campbell said Martin has agreed to speak with U.S. President George W. Bush and try to get back $5 billion in penalties illegally collected by Washington in countervail and anti-dumping duties.

Campbell was frustrated after a fruitless meeting with U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins on Thursday. Wilkins told the premiers the United States does not accept Wednesday's ruling from a North American Free Trade panel which unanimously ruled in Canada's favour.

Campbell said it's time the Americans were reminded that they rely on Canada for energy.

"We reminded the ambassador that the United States is not the only jurisdiction that wants our energy resources," said Campbell. "We have enormous opportunities across the Asia-Pacific in China, India."

But Alberta Premier Ralph Klein said he has no interest in holding back energy to force the Americans to deal with the softwood dispute.

"If we start to use measures that are deemed to be vindictive, that only creates vindictiveness on the other side and it starts to escalate," said Klein.

Several premiers, including Campbell, whose province is most impacted by the ongoing trade war, have expressed frustration over the stalemate. Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty warned the U.S. ambassador that failing to live up to NAFTA could affect how ordinary Canadians view the U.S.

Campbell stressed the problem again Friday: "How can you build long-term relationships if they don't respect the laws they signed?"

Wilkins agreed to take the premiers' concerns back to Washington, but said the U.S. wants a negotiated settlement to the dispute.

"We've gone the legal route, but we've taken this the extent of the NAFTA legal remedies. We kept winning and we were successful in the end with a unanimous decision."

© The Canadian Press 2005


The issue is rapidly growing in importance outside of BC and the other forestry producers.

Can the Yanks be dealt with at their word?

McGuinty would be the one to watch.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 13-08-2005 10:59 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Stick its to them.

*****ess,..

ARRRRRR!!!

Wezil is offline Wezil
King
Ontario, Canada
Nov 1999
time: 02:07
  Old Post 15-08-2005 18:17
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
McGuinty would be the one to watch.


Dalton's issue is guns. The Centre Of The Universe has become a free fire zone, hence it is everyone's problem. I haven't heard him say one word about softwood lumber.

Flubber is offline Flubber
Emperor
With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
  Old Post 15-08-2005 19:48
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You have to love the US trade policy . .. generally "pro-free trade" UNLESS the Chines want their oil assets or a ruling gets made they don't like etc etc..... Its actually pretty easy to get a protectionist type measure in place.

The good thing for Canada right now is that a lot of our exports are in good demand right now. We still absolutely do not want any sort of trade war with the US (everybody loses) but a free trade deal is laughable if the US will ignore a consistent and unchanging series of rulings against them.

Wezil is offline Wezil
King
Ontario, Canada
Nov 1999
time: 02:07
  Old Post 15-08-2005 20:22
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Got spare money?

So long as we do nothing in response what incentive have they to change?

This approach works well for the US.

 
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