11-08-2005 16:53									#1
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The story broke out this morning in a French paper. Right now I'm late to work, so I don't have time to look for an English version of the story.

	11-08-2005 16:54									#2
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FLQ?

Isn't this one of the Quebecois separatist parties?

	11-08-2005 17:03									#3
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Relatively insignificant terrorist group active in the 60s and 70s.

	11-08-2005 17:17									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker FLQ? Isn't this one of the Quebecois separatist parties?

They killed a French Canadian, Quebec's Labour Minister Pierre Laporte, kidnapped a British diplomat (didn't kill the Anglo) and blew up letter boxes.

Real classy outfit.

	11-08-2005 21:39									#5
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Thats going to make the folks out west hate Martin and his government even more.

	11-08-2005 21:40									#6
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Is that possible Max?

	11-08-2005 22:11									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Relatively insignificant terrorist group active in the 60s and 70s.

i suppose relatively, they were insignificant on the world stage


they were a primary reason martial law was declared in Quebec. In my Canadian history class in high school, learning about this part of history was very emphasized. They were a very big deal in Quebec.

My dad still remembers tanks driving down his street in Montreal.

	11-08-2005 22:15									#8
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Probably not. I think they are maxed out in the hate department.

I seen a poll released the other day, saying approx 35 percent of westerners want to form their own country.

	11-08-2005 22:20									#9
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Trudeau invoked the Canada's War Measures Act over these guys.

I guess that mean't he released the army consisting of four volkswagen dressed up like tanks, and a platoon of old guys carrying clubs.

	11-08-2005 22:43									#10
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It is generally admitted that Trudeau over-reacted to the crisis, and gave the FLQ a lot more attention and visibility then they deserved by declaring martial law.

	13-08-2005 00:25									#11
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"It's generally admitted (Inside the borders of Quebec) that Trudeau overreacted...."

	13-08-2005 00:39									#12
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by who exactly?

maybe they teach something different in the french schools, but i've never once heard that.

	13-08-2005 00:46									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster Thats going to make the folks out west hate Martin and his government even more.

The talk jocks are bouncing off the walls. It's very amusing to listen to.

	13-08-2005 00:48									#14
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They didn't teach me that, but that's certainly the conclusion I draw.

Trudeau loses a lot of points in my eyes for what he did during the October Crisis.

	13-08-2005 00:48									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster Probably not. I think they are maxed out in the hate department. I seen a poll released the other day, saying approx 35 percent of westerners want to form their own country.

I think that poll was of attitudes among young people, and it was a question of whether the West should examine the option.

Still, shocked the hell out of me.

	13-08-2005 00:51									#16
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse They didn't teach me that, but that's certainly the conclusion I draw. Trudeau loses a lot of points in my eyes for what he did during the October Crisis.

I've always looked at it as laying down the law and crushing a violent movement in the cradle.

'Go ahead and talk about whatever you want, but political violence will be crushed.'

It's one of the few things I like about the man.

	13-08-2005 01:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I've always looked at it as laying down the law and crushing a violent movement in the cradle. 'Go ahead and talk about whatever you want, but political violence will be crushed.' It's one of the few things I like about the man.

We're going to give ourselves the right:

a) to censure, suppress or control publications;

b) to arrest, detain, exclude or expel individuals;

c) to control ports and the movement of ships;

d) to control all forms of transportation;

e) to control trade, exports, imports, production, and fabrication;

f) to take over, control, confiscate or dispose thereof or use any property.

and, in case you didn't get it ...


Art. 6 (5).The protection and guarantees extended to Canadians by the Canadian Bill of Rights, and other Charters of Rights in operation provincially in Canada, are waved aside while the Proclamation is in effect.

Trudeau

	13-08-2005 01:31									#18
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Yes, when politicians and diplomats are being kidnapped and executed, we do give our government the right to do that.

In case you didn't get it, it's called a War Measures Act for a reason.

	13-08-2005 01:32									#19
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Although, I'm not sure how some of it's provisions stand up post Charter.

It is an Act of Parliament, and as such is subordinate to the Constitution.

	13-08-2005 01:36									#20
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Yes, when politicians and diplomats are being kidnapped and executed, we do give our government the right to do that.

Please. I want to believe you're trolling.

quote: In case you didn't get it, it's called a War Measures Act for a reason.

Yes. It is to be used when there is a war.

	13-08-2005 01:38									#21
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Although, I'm not sure how some of it's provisions stand up post Charter. It is an Act of Parliament, and as such is subordinate to the Constitution.

It has been repealed in 1988.

	13-08-2005 01:42									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Yes. It is to be used when there is a war.

Didn't Trudeau say that he regretted having to use that Act, because there was no other?

	13-08-2005 01:48									#23
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Didn't Trudeau say that he regretted having to use that Act, because there was no other?

That's not exactly how he put it:

quote: "Yes, well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don’t like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it is more important to keep law and order in the society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don’t like the looks of..." He further added: "I think the society must take every means at its disposal to defend itself against the emergence of a parallel power which defies the elected power in this country and I think that this goes to any distance".. Challenged to state just how far he would go, Trudeau stated defiantly: "Well, just watch me".

And i'll bet that's all most canadians remember of the use of the act: that last sentence. The rest doesn't really count, right? Hundreds of people imprisoned for weeks - some for months - without trials or even charges laid against them.
But who cares: Trudeau really nailed it with that "just watch me" thing.

	13-08-2005 01:59									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster I seen a poll released the other day, saying approx 35 percent of westerners want to form their own country.

I think the wording was much looser than people wanting to do it-- wasn't it something along the lines of "would be prepared to consider" or similar wishy washy language?

	13-08-2005 02:01									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu That's not exactly how he put it: And i'll bet that's all most canadians remember of the use of the act: that last sentence. The rest doesn't really count, right? Hundreds of people imprisoned for weeks - some for months - without trials or even charges laid against them. But who cares: Trudeau really nailed it with that "just watch me" thing.

I remember that bit, but I also remeber this bit. Especially the first paragraph.

quote: These are strong powers and I find them as distasteful as I am sure do you. They are necessary, however, to permit the police to deal with persons who advocate or promote the violent overthow of our democratic system. In short, I assure you that the Government recognizes its grave responsibilities in interfering in certain cases with civil liberties, and that it remains answerable to the people of Canada for its actions. The Government will revoke this proclamation as soon as possible. As I said in the House of Commons this morning, the government will allow sufficient time to pass to give it the necessary experience to assess the type of statute which may be required in the present circumstances. It is my firm intention to discuss then with the leaders of the Opposition parties the desirability of introducing legislation of a less comprehensive nature. In this respect I earnestly solicit from the leaders and from all Honourable members constructive suggestions for the amendment of the regulations. Such suggestions will be given careful consideration for possible inclusion in any new statute.

	13-08-2005 02:04									#26
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Be that as it may, I would be pissed off if the tanks had rolled into my town, and it were my neighbours being rounded up.

I understand how the event is viewed in much of Quebec.

	13-08-2005 02:11									#27
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quote: I think that poll was of attitudes among young people, and it was a question of whether the West should examine the option. Still, shocked the hell out of me.

No, it was a poll of everyone. Young people had an even higher rate of desire for separation.

I'm not surprised. When a city like Vancouver speaks Tagalog and Cantonese, what sense does Canada make, with special provisions for French speakers?

Quebec has shown that the only way to get what you want is to threaten to seperate. Western Canada can play that game too.

	13-08-2005 02:16									#28
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The thing is, there was another tool available and it was already being used.
On October 15 1970 the Quebec government used the "Aid to Civil Authorities" part of the National Defence act to ask for reinforcement since it figured that the Surete du Quebec didn't have enough men to protect everyone who needed to be protected. Within less than one hour, about 1,000 men of the Royal 22nd Regiment arrived in Montreal to occupy key positions in the city. They could ask for more and would have if they felt it was necessary.
And that would have been it. More men to protect key people.

	13-08-2005 02:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu That's not exactly how he put it: And i'll bet that's all most canadians remember of the use of the act: that last sentence. The rest doesn't really count, right? Hundreds of people imprisoned for weeks - some for months - without trials or even charges laid against them.

Yup, thats what terrorism causes.

Even I remember that, in grade school current events, the killings in Quebec. Guess the teachers didnt want to talk about Viet Nam.

	13-08-2005 02:23									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu The thing is, there was another tool available and it was already being used. On October 15 1970 the Quebec government used the "Aid to Civil Authorities" part of the National Defence act to ask for reinforcement since it figured that the Surete du Quebec didn't have enough men to protect everyone who needed to be protected. Within less than one hour, about 1,000 men of the Royal 22nd Regiment arrived in Montreal to occupy key positions in the city. They could ask for more and would have if they felt it was necessary. And that would have been it. More men to protect key people.

Didn't Bourassa and Drapeau ask the Feds to take extra measures?