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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
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Lot's of talk about lack of pressure, but I don't think there necessarily was any loss of cabin pressure. It sounds instead as if the ventilation was malfunctioning so that the passengers were effectively sealed in like bugs in a jar with no air holes punched in the lid. The masks were probably manually deployed by the pilot before he passed out. I wouldn't be surprised if the ineffectiveness of the masks was related to the original ventilation issue, unless it turns out that the masks rely on bottled O2.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Geronimo
Lot's of talk about lack of pressure, but I don't think there necessarily was any loss of cabin pressure. It sounds instead as if the ventilation was malfunctioning so that the passengers were effectively sealed in like bugs in a jar with no air holes punched in the lid. The masks were probably manually deployed by the pilot before he passed out. I wouldn't be surprised if the ineffectiveness of the masks was related to the original ventilation issue, unless it turns out that the masks rely on bottled O2. |
There must have been loss of cabin pressure, otherwise there would have been no need to release the masks.
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mrmitchell
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Have paiktis, MarkG, orange, etc. posted?
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Heresson
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As I understand it, the pilot was in the passenger cabin - don't know why.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell
Have paiktis, MarkG, orange, etc. posted? |
No,, greece has been very silent.
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat
There must have been loss of cabin pressure, otherwise there would have been no need to release the masks. |
The masks provide oxygen. Lack of pressure is not the usual way people can't get enough oxygen. more often it is due to poor ventilation. Lack of ventilation on an aircraft is just as asphyxiating as it is on solid ground. The crew had reported that they had trouble with their air conditioning. That is quite different from a loss of pressure.
Granted it could come out that they lost cabin pressure but it doesn't seem to be a given at this point.
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axi
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Athens Greece
Sep 1999
time: 07:37
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Axi, reporting from his summer house, not very far from the crash site (about 15 km in a straight line I believe).
It's right in the middle of summer holidays so it's reasonable that nobody from here would log on to Apolyton.
Everybody here is dazzled by the mystery and gruesomness of the affair. Our info isn't much better than yours and the journalists yesterday had a fest of creating info right out of their asses. Personally I can't understand how everybody went unconscious, then a couple of people came about and tried to fly the plane but noone used the radio or put out an emergency signal. I remember the media saying yesterday that the plane did at some point try to make right triangle manuevres which mean "we're in danger but we cannot communicate" but I didn't hear about this again. How possible is it for cabin pressure and communications to be down at the same time?
Something else that I can't understand is why the plane crashed where it crashed. The autopilot supposedly flew the plane to the northern approach area of the airport and supposedly, if left alone (without the order to begin descent) the plane would have flown at the same altitude until fuel exhaustion. Instead, it plunged down and crashed into a hill. Miraculously, in one of the most densely populated areas of the country, the plane chose a totally empty area only 2,5 km off the closest village. Did someone crash it there on purpose? What is certain, the F-16s had nothing to do with this, although they flew in formation with the plane almost to the last moment. Some people on the beach of Schinias near Marathon actually saw the crash.
I wonder what would have happened if the plane had shot past the mountain of Parnitha and turned south towards Athens. The devastation would be unimaginable.
In my opinion, some people will eventually do hard time in jail for this. The plane had serious cabin pressure problems in October and in December 2004 but they put it back into service after they had it "fixed". Some engineers are said to have submitted their resignations over this earlier this year and they have doubled their salaries to convince them to stay with the company. Plus the company was witholding the passenger list for more than 24 hours. They didn't even know the exact age of their crew members, not to speak of the passengers, for crying out loud!
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Proteus_MST
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quote:
Originally posted by axi
Everybody here is dazzled by the mystery and gruesomness of the affair. Our info isn't much better than yours and the journalists yesterday had a fest of creating info right out of their asses. Personally I can't understand how everybody went unconscious, then a couple of people came about and tried to fly the plane but noone used the radio or put out an emergency signal. I remember the media saying yesterday that the plane did at some point try to make right triangle manuevres which mean "we're in danger but we cannot communicate" but I didn't hear about this again. How possible is it for cabin pressure and communications to be down at the same time?
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Could it be that these passengers didnīt know how to fly a plane (and everybody of the crew was unconscious and so couldnīt give any instructions) and, not knowing what to do, switched off the Autopilot without manning the Control Sticks of the plane?
Or that they manned the controls, switched off the Autopilot, but afterwards fell unconscious themselves?
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by axi
Axi, reporting from his summer house, not very far from the crash site (about 15 km in a straight line I believe).
It's right in the middle of summer holidays so it's reasonable that nobody from here would log on to Apolyton.
Everybody here is dazzled by the mystery and gruesomness of the affair. Our info isn't much better than yours and the journalists yesterday had a fest of creating info right out of their asses. Personally I can't understand how everybody went unconscious, then a couple of people came about and tried to fly the plane but noone used the radio or put out an emergency signal. I remember the media saying yesterday that the plane did at some point try to make right triangle manuevres which mean "we're in danger but we cannot communicate" but I didn't hear about this again. How possible is it for cabin pressure and communications to be down at the same time?
Something else that I can't understand is why the plane crashed where it crashed. The autopilot supposedly flew the plane to the northern approach area of the airport and supposedly, if left alone (without the order to begin descent) the plane would have flown at the same altitude until fuel exhaustion. Instead, it plunged down and crashed into a hill. Miraculously, in one of the most densely populated areas of the country, the plane chose a totally empty area only 2,5 km off the closest village. Did someone crash it there on purpose? What is certain, the F-16s had nothing to do with this, although they flew in formation with the plane almost to the last moment. Some people on the beach of Schinias near Marathon actually saw the crash.
I wonder what would have happened if the plane had shot past the mountain of Parnitha and turned south towards Athens. The devastation would be unimaginable.
In my opinion, some people will eventually do hard time in jail for this. The plane had serious cabin pressure problems in October and in December 2004 but they put it back into service after they had it "fixed". Some engineers are said to have submitted their resignations over this earlier this year and they have doubled their salaries to convince them to stay with the company. Plus the company was witholding the passenger list for more than 24 hours. They didn't even know the exact age of their crew members, not to speak of the passengers, for crying out loud! |
I agree with you about the media. Your media sucks  . JK, our is just as bad. With 24 hour news, no one knows how to fill the time. So they just talk out of their asses. They have no clue how planes are constructed or flown. They make wild assumptions.
They are giving all kinds of weird conflicting information. some articles say the F-16 pilots saw someone attempting to fly the plane, others do not. They really bit on the text message hoax- stupid reporters. And some reports have said the bodies on the ground were wearing their masks. But the last article I read said the bodies weren't wearing their masks. 
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
quote:
The masks provide oxygen. Lack of pressure is not the usual way people can't get enough oxygen. more often it is due to poor ventilation. Lack of ventilation on an aircraft is just as asphyxiating as it is on solid ground. The crew had reported that they had trouble with their air conditioning. That is quite different from a loss of pressure.
Granted it could come out that they lost cabin pressure but it doesn't seem to be a given at this point. |
IIRC both carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide poisoning result in pink or red flushing of the skin, whereas pure hypoxia results in blueness of the skin.
Inadequate ventilation/a problem with the oxygen supply would lead to death by carbon dioxide poisoning before it led to death by hypoxia, thus the pilot would not have turned blue, rather he would have been flushed.
The most common reasons I can think of for death by hypoxia are drowning and low pressure.
All else being equal I would therefore guess that this was a case of loss of cabin pressure (though it's of course far from a certainty)
The fact that it got extremely cold in the aircraft (cold enough to claim that they were freezing) also leads me to believe that there was some sort of leak in the system. |
carbon monoxide gives a characteristic cherry-red blush to the skin. Carbon dioxide does nothing of the sort.
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15-08-2005 02:35
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