17-08-2005 15:52									#1
	Civ4 Battles Single Units Or Big Armies? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Heya guys,

I'm looking forward to civ4 as many others but in the past one thing kept me from enjoying civ3 as i did with ctp2.

As a big ctp2 fan i really liked the multiple army feature. For instance to have an army of cannons and infantry and to capture cities more easily then with civ3 where u can launch a mass of units on a city lose 3/4 and also make the defending units stronger bothered the hell outta me.

Now im hoping that civ4 will finally use this feature as well.

Is there any word on this matter?

	17-08-2005 18:24									#2
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Hmmm... anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but so far what we know of Civ4 combat is this:

- You can group units for movement
- No stacked combat, it's still 1 on 1
- Cannons/Artillery behave like normal units (civ2-like)
- The 'stack of doom' effect is lessened, as bombardment does collateral damage
- Units get promotions, you choose in which field (attack/defense etc.)

So it does not look like the combat system will be like you want it to be. IMHO it's only natural that defending units get stronger - each fight they win increase their experience...

	17-08-2005 18:24									#3
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im hoping its stacked, cuz the single unit system in Civ 3 anoyed the heck out of me. But i hope its like an unlimited size of a stacked army, so you dont just have 50 full stacked armies, thus causing the same problem.

	18-08-2005 01:38									#4
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it was a sad day when they decided to sack the army idea in C4

R.I.P Armies

	18-08-2005 01:48									#5
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What good were Armies? They just broke Civ3 further. A Civ3 army was an uber-unit that would hardly ever lose if composed of the strong units, and it was also something that the AI would never use properly. Get yourself an early Medieval army of Knights, and you can conquer anyone.

	18-08-2005 02:53									#6
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I'm hoping that promotions are changed to an end-of-turn event. A unit getting stronger immediately just doesn't make sense.

	18-08-2005 07:16									#7
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It never made much sense to me that a unit in a city could replace losses, particularly modern units, and to have them end up stronger...

One of the problems with Civ has always been unlimited replacements. In fact running out of young men of fighting age has been a problem since before napoleon and was critical during WWI & WWII.

	18-08-2005 07:31									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer It never made much sense to me that a unit in a city could replace losses, particularly modern units, and to have them end up stronger... One of the problems with Civ has always been unlimited replacements. In fact running out of young men of fighting age has been a problem since before napoleon and was critical during WWI & WWII.

yeah, that's one thing about RTS games, at least at some point you can run (or run your enemy) out of resources. As for the stacks being unlimited, I kinda liked the 12 unit limit in CTP2 because otherwise you would run into like what solver said about Civ3. Then again the CTP2 AI didn't know how to use the stacks either.

	18-08-2005 12:31									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Wise Ass yeah, that's one thing about RTS games, at least at some point you can run (or run your enemy) out of resources. As for the stacks being unlimited, I kinda liked the 12 unit limit in CTP2 because otherwise you would run into like what solver said about Civ3. Then again the CTP2 AI didn't know how to use the stacks either.

In both CTPs, all you had to do was max out a stack or two of balanced attack/bombard and you could roll over the world. CTP was worse than Civ3 in that respect

	19-08-2005 05:43									#10
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That's why I made didn't bold, from what I understand (haven't tried it yet) AoM solves that problem.

	19-08-2005 23:22									#11
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quote: I'm hoping that promotions are changed to an end-of-turn event. A unit getting stronger immediately just doesn't make sense.

Concur.

quote: That's why I made didn't bold, from what I understand (haven't tried it yet) AoM solves that problem.

I think it did. The Minoans attacked me from the unexpected end of my empire (the farthest one form their territory) with at least 21 units. I saw the stack of 12, and counting what I killed later to retake my city, they had at least that. And they have another stack of 12 incoming. The game base ai was pitiful, but AoM seems to have made a good job of it.