18-08-2005 12:33									#1
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We have no Culture except our Zeus and palace in KBH.

This is a sad fact, i have read the posts about the temple of Artemis and whilst i agree that is a good wonder its an acient era wonder and all the time we approach the end of its usefullness.

Also to build it it is suggested to do so in KBH which ties up our most productive city to building wonders for many many turns.

OK I could have posted that in the Artemis thread and perhaps i will later, but for now i want to have here a team debate about Culture as a whole. Hopefully we can move on to some polls when this debate has ran for a while.

all welcome to air their views and concerns but i want no thread jacking and over zealously putting forth ones views at the detriment of others!!!

OK I believe we are at great risk of falling behind culturally and scientifically, at present we are putting all our eggs in oone basket our military!

We run the risk here of getting bogged down in protracted war and facing superior units in the later stages of this era!

Time to plan to grow and educate our people, temples and libraries are the way to go but libraries would certainly solve both culture and science issues in one hit.

of course we need to think about markets at some stage too. I agree we must stay secure and strong but there are ways to achieve this without being perpetually at war.

Debate away brothers

	18-08-2005 16:20									#2
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I think we should only get temples where we need new land,
we should also put marketplaces in the more lucrative cities.
We need to specialize cities. Marketplaces are also essential in upgrading all our veteran horsemen to Keshiks.

	19-08-2005 06:19									#3
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Culture is important. Science is also important.

However, after we research chivalry (in 14 turns) we won't need any other technology to complete our military conquest of the world.


Only one issue Chris.

quote: We run the risk here of getting bogged down in protracted war and facing superior units in the later stages of this era!

Which superior units? Can you please elaborate what you consider could be the superior units threatening us and in which timeframe?

	28-08-2005 14:41									#4
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Ljube Cavalry mate, if we get bogged down in protracted war on several fronts, which might happen if the other teams in this game ever wake up and realise its there only chance to stop our winning this game.

Imagine if you will a scenario where we are against a 4 or 5, but more likely 3 nation alliance all researching to out tech us and we switched off our science at chivalry.

Keshiks are not that bad at killing cavalry but they are useless at defending from a cavalry attack!

You may well be right and we may well storm this land with Keshiks, but we need a second plan, a long term plan just in case this falls down in an unexpected way.

Rob I would like it if you could do us some stats on which cultural builds if any would be best for the Horde, and in which cites.

How soon we could hope to build some libraries or markets etc and whether we need to increase our army much more than it already stands.

Ill email you soon with my thoughts

	28-08-2005 14:48									#5
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This is an important discussion... I too look forward to your thoughts Rob.

So too the rest of the Horde. Bring it on folks.

	28-08-2005 17:41									#6
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Ok...please remember that these are INITIAL THOUGHTS...not my final word on this.

Culture buildings cost money to upkeep while they provide little or no tangible benefit for our militaristic strategem. Temples can keep one citizen content (vs unhappy), libraries will increase our research by 50% in that city--we don't plan to research. Any other culture-producing buildings require that we have either a library or temple first.

Now...as for a GW - The reason that the Temple of Artemis was suggested is that it would give us freebie temples in every city on the continent (which, given the map, is virtually every city). Since we did not plan to EVER research Education, the ToA would never become obsolete. As for researching up through cavalry (i.e. Military Tradition), we would have to obsolete the Statue of Zeus wonder at the Tech: Metalurgy.

As for providing the 'best' candidates for culture: build a temple in any city you want to have grow to size 7 or 8. Build temples in other cities if you want to get some cash by reducing luxuries.

Marketplaces do not provide culture, but they do provide 50% more taxes in that city. Since this is not resistant to corruption and does not work in concert with taxmen, build markets only where you KNOW they will be useful. KBH is a good candidate for the moment. Bloodview would be if we build the f/p there. None of the other cities would be useful at the present time since they are too small to benefit enough.

By enough, I mean that you must factor in the time spent building the place as well as the 1gpt upkeep cost.

One more thing: temples also have a 1gpt upkeep, so don't forget that building temples in corrupt cities will do little good (unless we get them from ToA--in which case there is no upkeep costs).

	28-08-2005 18:48									#7
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does Artemis become obslete if another civ researches education ?,

	28-08-2005 20:26									#8
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You call them temples, we cal them pubs!!!