18-08-2005 13:16									#1
	Maximum map size Got spare money?

Sorry for asking a question that has possibly been answered long ago on this forum.

I see (from a WW2 scenario available for download here) that it is indeed possible to create a mega map in Civ2. However, is it possible to create the same truly massive 1000+x1000+ map that one can manage with CTP2 (there is a world map of this size available )?

I would be most interested in hearing whether this is feasible with Civ2.

	18-08-2005 23:05									#2
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The maximum map size for Civ2 up to the Fantastic Worlds add-on is 10,922 (so-called oversized maps). The maximum map size for Civ2 versions after that (i.e. all the multiplayer versions, including Test of Time) is 32,767 ("gigamaps")... Not quite 1000 x 1000 I'm afraid.

Civ2 and the Civ2 map editor can open those kinds of maps (i.e. maps larger than 10,000) without a problem. To create such big maps, however, you'll need other programs.

There are several different ones available. How useful they are to you will depend on what exactly you're planning to do:

It could be by own MapEdit utility, the version of BMP-2-MAP that I edited (version 1.2G), or my converted "Test of Time Map Editor", which is really the MGE map editor edited so it can also create gigamaps and to make it work with ToT. All of those you can find on my Civ2 utility site.

To create random gigamaps you can use CivMapGen. You could use that "Test of Time Map Editor" as well, but CivMapGen creates much better random maps.

There's also Dusty's "newmap" command-line program.

And then there are the "No Limits" patches for MGE and ToT. They increase some of Civ2's limits, like the amount of money you can make, and the population size. With that patch you can also use Civ2 to generate random gigamaps. You can find those patches at CivFanatics.

I think that's all of them.

	18-08-2005 23:21									#3
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In any case, on a gigamap with large landmasses, you hit the 250 city limit pretty early, especially if playing with all 7 civs, so larger maps wouldn't make much diference...

	19-08-2005 02:28									#4
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Mercator and N35t0r :

Thank you so much for your most helpful replies.

Mercator, you certainly provided me with a lot of extremely useful information. Indeed, you have created several wonderful utilities for Civ2 map designers!!!

However, from what you say, it would seem that CTP2 is somewhat ahead of Civ2 (? it is the newer game) wrt map sizes.

	19-08-2005 04:12									#5
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Yeah, even CTP 1 came out after Civ2...

	19-08-2005 04:57									#6
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Yeah if Civ4 turns up a dud (that does seem less likely with V12 Monty), Locutus may yet convince me to try CTP2.

	19-08-2005 12:27									#7
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Certainly the modding community has been VERY active with CTP2.

There seem to be some VERY interesting mods out there .... especially the Ages of Man mod by Stan Karp.

	19-08-2005 22:09									#8
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What I find the more attractive is that they have the source code...

	19-08-2005 22:29									#9
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r In any case, on a gigamap with large landmasses, you hit the 250 city limit pretty early, especially if playing with all 7 civs, so larger maps wouldn't make much diference...

Wouldn't the vastly increased distance between civs, combined with the ridiculous inflation of caravan and airport value, mean a lot?

	20-08-2005 00:16									#10
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I guess so, but unless you higly up the tech paradigm, you'll probably be hitting the cap anyways....