19-08-2005 15:59									#1
	MY - 2184 - Planning and execution thread Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

First observations after a quick survey of the turn:

-- No forest expansion this turn. I'm disappointed!
-- We are now listed first in Population, with 130 votes.
-- Research rate is now 11 turns.

-- Morgan has got Intellectual Integrity. Should have been by trade or stealing for he's now at 5 turns to getting MMI.

-- No answer from either the Gaians or the Angels...
-- Morgan asks "what kind of tech" we can offer for what we want.

Proposition:
-- the seaformer at GH has finished its kelp farm. I propose another kelp on the energy bonus in Minas Tirith area.

More to come this evening.

	19-08-2005 18:23									#2
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PM from the gaians:

quote: sent by Chaos Theory to Googlie ACDG diplomacy 1) Perhaps instead of askng us what we'd like, you could propose which techs you'd be willing to trade. 2) We haven't come to a consensus on the price of granting you universal infiltration. You realize, of course, that the governorship is often granted to the weak, rather than the strong, as evidenced by Lal. When are you planning on holding elections, anyway?

	19-08-2005 18:47									#3
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It's reassuring that the Gaians and Morgan are asking "what techs?" - thus indicating (or bluffing) that neither has us infiltrated (nor the Angels, as the Gaians would be able so see our techs via their third party Pactmate status, if we were infiltrated by the A's

As regards tech trades, if we were to go that route this turn, I'd suggest:

For Bio-engineering from Morgan - Planetary Economics (Hybrid Forests would be most appealing to them, for the economy clout they give)

For Centauri Empathy from the Gaians, I'd suggest the same technology - roleplay wise (which I think they are doing somewhat) it has to fit with their philosophy (Hybrid forests, again) although they are not running Green

As an aside, Morgan also has Superstring Theory - must have purloined that from the Hive

And the Gaians are researching "None" which means that they got Polysoft via an AA, trade or steal

	19-08-2005 19:21									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie It's reassuring that the Gaians and Morgan are asking "what techs?" - thus indicating (or bluffing) that neither has us infiltrated (nor the Angels, as the Gaians would be able so see our techs via their third party Pactmate status, if we were infiltrated by the A's

Have I missed something or isn't infiltration mandatory to see who has which techs?
I just open the diplomacy window, then Share tech and I see whether there is *already has* or not.

quote: For Bio-engineering from Morgan - Planetary Economics (Hybrid Forests would be most appealing to them, for the economy clout they give)

Don't forget to remind them we proposed the same deal a few turns ago, and if they had accepted, they would now own the Ascetic Virtues. Instead of, we now own the AV and not the Longevity Vaccine, giving us even more advantages. Thus, refusing the deal only hurt them.

quote: For Centauri Empathy from the Gaians, I'd suggest the same technology - roleplay wise (which I think they are doing somewhat) it has to fit with their philosophy (Hybrid forests, again) although they are not running Green

I am very reluctant to give a tech for CentEmp that we'll get for free in 3 turns.
As sometimes said: Let them do their own research! The more tech the more time to research, but it's no reason to make gifts (especially if we plan to make them our next target).

quote: And the Gaians are researching "None" which means that they got Polysoft via an AA, trade or steal

Where do you look to know which tech a non-infiltrated faction is researching?

	19-08-2005 21:02									#5
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Where do you look to know which tech a non-infiltrated faction is researching?

Here you see our own direct infiltration info on the Gaians.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...3088_Infil1.jpg

However since we have infiltrated the Corporation, and since the Corporation is pacted with the Gaians, we get some extra information. Just click on the Morganic icon while in the Gaian infiltration screen.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...3088_Infil2.jpg

	19-08-2005 21:08									#6
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quote: Posted by the Gaians 2) We haven't come to a consensus on the price of granting you universal infiltration. You realize, of course, that the governorship is often granted to the weak, rather than the strong, as evidenced by Lal. When are you planning on holding elections, anyway?

Perhaps point out that the other choice is Yang, who's not exactly weak, and on top of that hostile (and likely would veto a global trade pact)?

	19-08-2005 21:23									#7
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Here's a turn. I just moved the worm hunting brigades near Río Rojo, Northern and Central Arcadia.

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2184mid.zip
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	20-08-2005 01:12									#8
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• Crater defungalization commenced.
  
• Forest being planted SW of Messena, road NE of MSN, and condenser SE-SE of SN. (I know forests are generally better right now, but there was no empty roaded tile in range for the 3-former stack, so it was building a condenser, or wasting 3 former turns to movement.)
  
• Forest plantation ongoing near Twonuts Strand.
  
  
• VV crawler moves near 2NS and harvests minerals.
  
  
• Hybrid forest hurried at last in Fort Superiority.
  
  
• Two 2NS workers changed to librarians. The base doesn't have enough nuts right now to popboom further.
  
• A Messenan worker switched to a librarian. Unless we have a hab complex there, the base can't popboom further, so nutrient surpluses are pointless there. We can switch between turns of nutrient surpluses and turns of librarians + nutrient deficits.
  
• Same reason - see Vladivostok. We haven't gotten enough terraformations present there, so...
  
• Did some shuffling of GH & SC2 workers to allow SC2 to popboom to size 9.
  
  
• What to do with the two formers SE of AU?
  - go south and plant a forest?
  - go SE and do... something?
  - go east and construct a mine?
  
• Do we want to upgrade some crawlers near AU to hurry a research hospital/hybrid forest/whatever?
  
• Same with Fort Buster. The place is flooding with crawlers, so do we want to upgrade one or two for bioenhancement center/tree Farm/...?

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2184mid2.zip
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	20-08-2005 02:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Have I missed something or isn't infiltration mandatory to see who has which techs? I just open the diplomacy window, then Share tech and I see whether there is *already has* or not.

That lets us know which techs we have that any other player (whether infiltrated directly or via third-party) has.

But we also know which techs the Gaians have that we don't via their faction profile, clicking on the Morgan icon, as Maniac posted above. And we used to know what the Angels had, via their faction profile, and the PK icon. But now we are blind there, with the elimination of the PK's

Likewise, the Gaians can see what they have that we don't, by clicking on "share techs" in their diplo box with us, but they don't know what we currently have that they dont. and I'm postulating that neither do the Angels, nor Morgan (and that's why we're rushing a longstrider to that new University base - we don't want the others to get our second-hand data via University infiltration)

	20-08-2005 03:04									#10
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Miscellaneous crawler orders needed:

• crawler outside and in Ironholm needing orders (but an Ironholm worker should come off a 1-2-1 forest tile onto the 2/5/0 farm tile)
  
• Crawler east of GH needs orders (convoy that 4 nut condensor it's sitting on - and move the worker elsewhere?
  
• FB's new crawler, and the one northeast on the nut tile
  
• RG's new crawler

	20-08-2005 03:34									#11
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MY-2184 – Military Moves

Covert Operations:

• Newly commissioned Longstrider at Fort Sup trudges along the road to Climactic Research
  
• Covert Operations Vessel Disco Volante sailed east to take up position north of the Angels base of Heaven’s Gate and northwest of the Hive base of Yang Mine – either can be reached next turn, if we want to try and do anything cute

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta, 2184-mid3.zip
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	20-08-2005 03:35									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

With some worker shuffling I guess it's possible to give those crawlers around the Crater something decent to harvest, but we really need to get rid of a couple soon by hurrying some infrastructure.

Edit: Didn't you suggest to build a sea former last turn? That way we could get rid of one crawler. Preferably the one in FB I think.

	20-08-2005 03:37									#13
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or load them onto the Mercury and sail them to home to Arcadian bases and work the mines around ARC?

(But I agree, a better investment would be to MM creches or tree farms, or something worthwhile. We are now in a builders race with Morgan's Tree Farms)

	20-08-2005 03:39									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Healthy B-4 from Health Authority (no pun intended)

quote: Skanky’s Sileni (wormhunting between ARC and Bunker-112) meets a mindworm and toasts it, becoming ELITE in the process

Did we lose sight of that Angel probe foil btw?

	20-08-2005 03:54									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Did we lose sight of that Angel probe foil btw?

Yes - it was no longer in our radar when we opened the turn

	20-08-2005 16:32									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: What to do with the two formers SE of AU? - go south and plant a forest? - go SE and do... something? - go east and construct a mine?

Yeah, a mine on the rocky-solar tile!

quote: Do we want to upgrade some crawlers near AU to hurry a research hospital/hybrid forest/whatever?

If we can afford it, yes. The place is a huge consumer of crawlers with AU, a possible bio-enhancement center in FS and the future Creche/Farm at Argos.
Next instabuild there will be the Hospital in AU.

Do we put crawlers in production in all cities of the region?
Do we hurry some?
I think TH can wait 2 turns before needing Rec Commons, otherwise, let's make one!

Seems Ironholm has 2 crawlers needing orders.
I'd see one taking 2 nuts fom the farm and the other 2 minerals from a forest.

quote: Same with Fort Buster. The place is flooding with crawlers, so do we want to upgrade one or two for bioenhancement center/tree Farm/...?

A Tree Farm is programmed for GH.

Otherwise, I didn't look too closely at Laconia, except Sparta Command:
- a stack of 3 formers awaits orders SW: I propose forest on the next roaded tile
- a stack of 3 formers NE: upgrade them to Wombat by 3x30 credits and then defungus, forest, defungus, forest...
- hurry a Creche (not especially this turn, but as we have many crawlers awaiting orders, at least make them come closer) and relocate a worker from forest to farm when done. Would allow popboom.
- hurry a Tree Farm in 3-4 turns and let the 2 former-stacks grow more forests

More suggestions/observations:
-- ARC can rush its crawler with 30 credits. Let's do it and send it next turn to the farm south.
-- Bunker 112 can rush its crawler with 45 credits. Let's do it and use it next turn to hurry a Creche at ARC.
-- Next crawler at ARC would go to Nut-bonus South. That should permit us to have an industrial center equally distant from all bases. A real crawler-churner!

-- Concerning a base at 6:60, it wouldn't give much advantage upon Fort Sol.
Taking-off in Fort Sol, commando planes can reach MartPact and the other big base NE. Elite planes (Elite X-planes in my mind! ) can reach Enigma Machine (11 tiles).
If we really want some closer base until we can use a captured Angelic base, then 9:65, a sea-base with mineral bonus. (but its goal would be so obvious that we should only found it the same turn as we launch the attack).

	21-08-2005 05:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Scout rover trolling the fungus in “no-mans” land southwest of Aid Station/northeast of Health Authority (names for those 2 bases?) comes up empty handed Southern Arcadian task force (2 empty trannies and the SCC Minas Tirith) finish exploring that small peninsula to the Gaians southeast

We'd have a bigger chance of stirring up mind worms if the rovers stayed on the river, so they can cross those fungal river tiles three times in one turn.

	21-08-2005 05:30									#18
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Yeah, a mine on the rocky-solar tile!

Done.

• Mine started on the rocky-solar tile near AU.
  
• One former SW of SC1 moves a tile east, preparing a road for future mass-mining.
  
• The two others move a tile south and plant a forest (I assume you meant that tile Vishniac?)
  
• The active former NE of SC1 moves two NE and plants forest.
  
• The GH sea former is still active, so I started it on a kelp farm on that energy bonus tile near Minas Tirith.

	21-08-2005 06:04									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Covert Operations Vessel Disco Volante sailed east to take up position north of the Angels base of Heaven’s Gate and northwest of the Hive base of Yang Mine – either can be reached next turn, if we want to try and do anything cute

Hey, did you guys notice Morgan Construction doesn't have a probe defender?

	21-08-2005 07:02									#20
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• Mine started on the rocky-solar tile near AU.
  
• One former SW of SC1 moves a tile east, preparing a road for future mass-mining.
  
• The two others move a tile south and plant a forest (I assume you meant that tile Vishniac?)
  
• The active former NE of SC1 moves two NE and plants forest.
  
• The GH sea former is still active, so I started it on a kelp farm on that energy bonus tile near Minas Tirith.
  
  
• B-4 in MT patrols the Hive border.
  
• F-6 in MT ends the turn en route to Iaci Base.
  
  
• Arcadia University: moved some crawlers and workers so that the base can popboom further without rioting.
  
• Crawler near AU upgraded for research hospital.
  
• Crawler near GH upgraded for tree farm.
  
• Crawler near FB hurried for bioenhancement center.
  
• Crawler shipment to Arcadia in progress. Shipping crawlers over an ocean... That's a primer for me. .......... And it leads to a new discovery for me - you can let crawlers harvest even when on a transport!!
  
  
• AU production set to a former. Can finish in one turn, so we can hurry a research hospital next year.
  
• FB production also a former. More terraformation for our booming population.
  
• Tegea Harbour set to rec commons. It'll need one in two turns and the rec commons will take two turns to build.
  
• Crypteia in Assassin's Redoubt hurried.
  
• ARC crawler hurried. Didn't hurry the Bunker 112 one though. It would be cheaper to just hurry a creche directly.

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta, 2184-end.zip
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	21-08-2005 08:16									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Crawler shipment to Arcadia in progress. Shipping crawlers over an ocean... That's a primer for me. .......... And it leads to a new discovery for me - you can let crawlers harvest even when on a transport!!

LOL - me too (I've transported crawlers from one continent to another, but never thought to see if they could crawl anything while still in the ocean tile - I guess in future if I ever do it again I'll look for a kelp farm or a mineral special to end the turn on)

	21-08-2005 08:40									#22
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Couple of micro-management moves (hey, I'm learning from the maestro himself!!)

At FB, swapped the crawler on the 1-4-1 forest mineral tile with the worker on the 3/1/0 farm tile - results in an extra nut and lab point from that base (pre, combined, was 3/5/0, now is 4/4/1)

At Bunker-112, moved the worker from the 2/2/0 farm-mine to the 2/1/1 rolling/rainy river tile - loss of 1 mineral but gain of 1 lab point

Turn finalized and sent to the Gaians

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	21-08-2005 18:23									#23
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Oh - I meant to say .....

When I hit "turn complete", the 2 formers northwest of Vladivostok were attacked by a mindworm - I think we lost 1 former (as I think the mindworm was still there when the screen switched to the Gaian save)

We do have a Hoplite adjacent, so likely can take out the worm (or capture it) in 2185

We might think about putting a Hoplite on duty with any vulnerable formers (ie, those with fungus tiles beside them) - or trancing the formers (or, after we get silksteel and can continue the MM, putting trance and 3-res armor on the formers - although they are easily replaceable right now)

	22-08-2005 00:05									#24
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As our formers go by stack of 2 or 3, perhaps just upgrade one in each stack with trance and synthmetal.
Synthmetal should be enough to eliminate the non-combat malus.
3-res would be a little expensive, wouldn't it?

To better protect all formers, but also crawlers, we should now re-consider building the Neural Amplifier.
One question is: does it also apply to indigenous units?
What I mean is, if yes and the Gaians build it, their worms would become 50% harder to kill, independantly of the fact we attack with laser, missile or chaos gun.

I would say we take a decision about it around 2188. By then, we will know where we stand with technologies and massive infastructure in AU (Forest and Hospital) will be finished.