05-02-2001 07:25									#1
	Handling Warfare in Simul Play Support Apolyton

I think I have a grip on Simul play now, but I still don;t see how warfare is easily conducted in Simul MP games. It seems to me that you either let the fastest players get the advantage, or you come up with some method of host-control (and I have no idea what that might be).

Anyone have some ideas on this?

	07-02-2001 09:20									#2
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No discussion? Did I bring up a taboo subject?

I really don't know how to handle the warfare in simul play and need some advice.

	07-02-2001 10:24									#3
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Taboo? Around here? The thing is, the jury's still out on war under simultaneous moves. There are complaints that the host has a movement advantage. There's a school of thought that the game should revert to turn-based if a war arises. Who knows? I've never been in a war situation under simul, so I honestly wouldn't know. I have no idea how it would affect things.

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	07-02-2001 18:33									#4
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Going by tonights little tizz, war in simul will be the undoing of the mighty Aussie group

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	07-02-2001 20:53									#5
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It's my general belief that once several players go to war we shoould follow the colour order. I think you should be able to move freely during simul but if you meet up with the enemy, and he has the higher colour he should be able to attack first. You should not be allowed to sneak attack or flee. Until your opponent has made all it's moves.
Once you're in attack range, it's the colour code that counts. Which is: first white, then green (i think?), light blue, yellow, blue, orange and finally purple.

In practice this means we'll have to grit our teeths sometimes as we stumble around or try to attack other units and not get the first shot. This can work to your advantage or disadvantage.

So in conclusion: colour code is the honor of having the first shot

Apart from having loading the game turn based i see no other alternative.

	07-02-2001 23:12									#6
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I really don't think it matters, as host you move faster, so you waste all your moves before anyone else. Granted you *might* be more likely to attack another unit as you see it. But if your all finished moving your units and somone attacks you, your a sitting duck.

When attacking a city the defender has the biggest advantage because he can just keep moving in units from nearby cities. I guess the fact is some poeple now just get pissed off because attacking a city with a single unit no longer works.(ie you can run out now and kill it sometimes)

	08-02-2001 00:00									#7
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The host advantage is not as great as one might think, as stated above. It is far too easy for others to react, and if the host has already gone through their moves, he/she can do nothing.

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	08-02-2001 00:06									#8
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by absurddoctor on 02-07-2001 02:00 PM</font>
The host advantage is not as great as one might think, as stated above. It is far too easy for others to react, and if the host has already gone through their moves, he/she can do nothing.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I don't know. Eyes of Night quit a game because I was rocking his world as host in simul. He said it was "unfair." I've never heard him whine like a girl before, so I assume there's something to the complaint.



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	08-02-2001 02:25									#9
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I agree with Markusf. Those who think there is a host advantage simply haven't thought it through. There are advantages for those who move first and those who move last, they roughly cancel out. The real problem is many players are simply too lazy to work it out and change their tactics. And of course the "perfectionists" hate it because simult introduces uncertainties and risk - gee, that's a bit like war



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	08-02-2001 05:21									#10
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I think simul is a realistic portrayal of warefare... i like the idea of my crusaders meeting "real" resistance.... instead of trashing people.... well not really but you catch my drift here.

Errors make the "chain of command of your troops" more realistic as well... catastrophe is much more likely

	08-02-2001 05:35									#11
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I have hosted several games in simult and I have to say it hasn't stopped players doing things that I didn't like. Non-host players seem to be able to move mighty fast.

Take the hoary old chestnut of the Host's "shoot first" advantage. I "shot first" last night and won but then found my ship right next to another enemy ship - some advantage. Also, both players would have to looking at the same part of the map for lag to even be relevant. Its swings and roundabouts.


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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

	08-02-2001 08:02									#12
	Remove this text

I'm coming around to the "let'r rip" school of simul.
Even as host, an old micro-managing fa_t like moi', can't react fast enuf.

As AH & others have stated... it DOES take a different approach to combat in Civ. It DOES more accurately reflect real combat. In that, attacking away at the 1st sighting of an enemy can be VERY costly.. if the other player knows what he/she is doing. Can make for REAL ambushes.
It is also reflective of the fact that these turns = anywhere from 1 to 50 years, definately time for a defender to react bringing in reinforcements &/or counterattacking after the initial wave of attackers have shot there wad.
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But it does make city managers like me very stressed!
Since much can happen while our maps are covered by city screen & we learn of an attack only AFTER it is too late to react.
Sure hope this doesn't preclude us managers from molding our cities to perfection?
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It IS really great for EVERYONE tho as far as allowing perfectionists to keep up the pace while still doing their thing.

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