25-08-2005 07:57									#31
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I just want to kill somebody already. So build your stinking cities to support my armies (and build them at the same time) and let me and my generals loose already......

	25-08-2005 09:02									#32
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*Lights lighter to GodKing*

	25-08-2005 11:32									#33
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if we are going to war we will need to see where their strat resources are located

	25-08-2005 14:02									#34
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Just read through everything. MoW should certainly be planning on the premise that we will be going to war with the Brazil team. The potentials for how that might particularly come about are something GK will need to figure out by working with the MoI and Area X (and anyone who wants to Sim this stuff), but by all means assume you're going to be at war sooner rather than later... check the optimal timing versus economic development, everything.

Whether or not we then *implement* a policy can be determined knowing (within reason) our best timetables, what we can build when, what we can hide, etc.

As for FAM... that gives them some idea of the story they have to tell to the Brazil team: a story that fits the facts as known by the other team at different times while carefully using those facts to subtly push them toward the perceptions we want them to have at those times.

What the policy ultimately is will be undoubtedly a team discussion.

	25-08-2005 22:40									#35
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I'm disappointed. I had hoped that we'd go for an agricultural victory.

If they are known cheats, take them out ASAP.

	26-08-2005 01:48									#36
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I really suggest we go for an attack within the next 50 turns or so.

The following is guestimates, based off of guesswork by me (and looking at our plans):

Turn 23 sign 50 turn NAP with the heathens
Turn 27 found city #2 (worker pump)
Turn 32 found city #3 (military pump). Discover iron working.
Turn 41 found city #4 (infrastructure city)
Turn 42 city #2 completes granary
Turn 47 city #3 completes barracks – starts on swords/enk combo (1 sword in 5 turns, one enk in 2 turns)
Turn 50 found city #5 (military pump)
Turn 56 found city #6
Turn 62 city #5 completes barracks – starts on swords (1 per 5 turns)
Turn 62 found city #7. Discover the wheel.
Turn 66 found city #8 (military pump)
Turn 72 found city #9
Turn 73 NAP with heathens expires. We are in diplomatic discussions with them to extend it while our forces position themselves. All production is switched over to military until our GA starts or our victory is assured.
Turn 77 we invade with the following forces, possibly triggering our GA (we plan on this, and hope to get to monarchy fast with the science boost):

Stack 1
2 veteran swords
3 regular swords
6 enk’s

Stack 2
5 veteran swords
4 enk’s
2 chariots / horses

Each stack has a mission to destroy / capture any under defended villages they cross, capture workers, and to generally pillage and make their life miserable.

On turn 90, we invade with the following second wave:
5 vet swords
6 regular swords
10 enks
any artillery we can produce

with the following outriders to continue the disruption:
6 horses

The sword stack will go to meet up with one of our other stacks, capturing cities on the way. Its objective will be to capture or destroy their core, completing their neutering or elimination from this game.

	26-08-2005 01:51									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Note that I have not been able to read the big chat with them and have not followed the rest of it as closely as I might have liked. That said, I agree with Thot in the CBR Diplo thread and Poly-Akryll in this one. We need to find out if anyone else is on our continent before committing to an attack. That's okay with me anyway, as we have been going for a peaceful worker/pump build up and we need to get the mileage out of it that we planned, which means sacrificing an early attack.

quote: Originally posted by skrobism I'm disappointed. I had hoped that we'd go for an agricultural victory. If they are known cheats, take them out ASAP.

Are they known cheats at all, though? I would presume the President is gone from the team. It could have been he did it with support from some or all of his teammates at that it continued, but I don't want to condemn a team for the actions of one.

	26-08-2005 02:10									#38
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It was the premise of the attack.

quote: We have met our first neighbor. Their history is one of betrayal and deception.

	26-08-2005 05:05									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Are they known cheats at all, though? I would presume the President is gone from the team. It could have been he did it with support from some or all of his teammates at that it continued, but I don't want to condemn a team for the actions of one.

The president was indeed banned after he was discovered, but CBR proceeded to violate the rules twice more before the game was over (and even forgot to post a battle log!).

If we do find another civ on our continent, we need to befriend them and get them on our side to eliminate CBR.

	26-08-2005 05:06									#40
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quote: If we do find another civ on our continent, we need to befriend them and get them on our side to eliminate CBR.

My feelinds as well. Even if it is PAL or CGN...

	26-08-2005 05:37									#41
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You know, considering the realtive difficulty of taking out another more skilled team, I'd much rather team up with CBR to take out CGN/PAL than the other way around. I have a distinct feeling we can probably manipulate CBR far more than we can CGN/PAL.

	26-08-2005 05:52									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen ................. I have a distinct feeling we can probably manipulate CBR far more than we can CGN/PAL.

Agreed.

	26-08-2005 07:57									#43
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Can we be sure that CBR will stay with us to see another team eliminated? Do you think they want big bad Apolyton alone with them on a continent? I think they'll form the 2v1 alliance against us as fast as possible. We need to do it faster.

	26-08-2005 08:29									#44
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I've never understood that. 'Big bad Apolyton'... the Germans have cleaned up until a game where they couldn't rely on people that had to rely on.

Do other sites really see us as large, nasty, and to be feared?

	26-08-2005 08:37									#45
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I've never understood that. 'Big bad Apolyton'... the Germans have cleaned up until a game where they couldn't rely on people that had to rely on. Do other sites really see us as large, nasty, and to be feared?

A very good question. We need to understand how it is that we are perceived.

I imagine that us coming back from our hideously bad jungle start in the PTW-ISDG to dominate our continent and at least give the German team a considerable run for their money didn't hurt us, but we haven't exactly WON any of these inter-site DGs yet.

But I'd love to know what the *perception* is out there of us. What do other sites really think after the PTW-ISDG and the first round of the C3C-ISDG?

	26-08-2005 11:11									#46
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Well, I see Apolyton as a site who, given time to grow, will emerge as the superpower and dominate the game.

Of course, that's just my personal perception.

	26-08-2005 11:19									#47
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We've done quite well in the ISDGs, but that might not be the cause of people thinking that we are "Big bad Apolyton." After all, we are the biggest civ site, we've been mentioned by Sid Meir and by universities, and IIRC, we also have the biggest team in terms of numbers.

	26-08-2005 11:39									#48
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Maybe we are not the "Big bad Apolyton" but with GWT and CFC out of the game we are definitely the "Big Apolyton".

	26-08-2005 13:41									#49
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A fine point. We seem to have a happy tendency for picking up the best people in the Civving community when an ISDG team elimination necessitates a move.

Of course, that's partially playing chicken-and-the-egg. Why come to Apolyton? (and asking that question only of those who HAVE come to Apolyton I recognize introduces some bias).

	26-08-2005 16:12									#50
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As the other teams will recognize some of the old GWT members in the Apo-members-list they will probably guess that GWT and Apo merged into one team and then they might have much respect. Though I always thought it would be best not to underestimate the enemy. So I always think the enemy is very able so I he cannot fool me as I put as much effort in defeating him as possible!

	26-08-2005 20:27									#51
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Also, I just said "big bad Apolyton" because it's a common saying (big bad). Perhaps big strong Apolyton would hold more truth.

	27-08-2005 03:49									#52
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@topic:

want to see first more (res. as well)
Contact to the next civ as well.

We are friendly and if it is usefull/nesscessary we are not friendly anymore .

@war:
swords + archer's (firststrike options)
and a bunch off horses if possible.

sirleif

	27-08-2005 03:58									#53
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quote: Originally posted by sirleif @topic: want to see first more (res. as well) Contact to the next civ as well. We are friendly and if it is usefull/nesscessary we are not friendly anymore . @war: swords + archer's (firststrike options) and a bunch off horses if possible. sirleif

Hmm... If we get contact to the third civ before the war, it won't be good. We don't want them to side against us, after all.

	27-08-2005 03:59									#54
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Yeah, so try to get them as part of an alliance against the Brazucas...

	27-08-2005 04:04									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Yeah, so try to get them as part of an alliance against the Brazucas...

They'd probably discover Brazil first.

	27-08-2005 04:45									#56
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might already have and it might be BAT

E_T

	27-08-2005 13:04									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear They'd probably discover Brazil first.

Better for us. That means Brazil is probably in the middle between us and them, thus making them a better target.

	27-08-2005 13:07									#58
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Um, I have noticed several threads recently that assume we will be in war in the next 50 turns. This is by no means guaranteed (but I think it favorable to us at this time to do so). So, the first question is, do we or don't we?

	27-08-2005 13:21									#59
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Well, I doubt that the plan will be much diferent over the next 20 turns, so we should still keep it in mind and have it planned in case we do go to war.

	31-08-2005 01:05									#60
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I think we should immediately scrap all plans so far and adopt total war economy. Sumer is the perfect nation for archer rush and I think we should offer one to our dear neighbours. Only when they are removed completely can we be safe and free to pursue an expansion policy we like.