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Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:37
Thumbs up  Old Post 23-08-2005 22:19
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Protectionism Enter the AD-FREE zone

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/07c84d46-1...000e2511c8.html

quote:
Chinese bras wing their way on to EU shelves
By Elizabeth Rigby in London, Clare MacCarthy in Copenhagen and Paivi Munter in Stockholm
Published: August 22 2005 20:21 | Last updated: August 22 2005 20:21

eu chinaFor Claus Walther Jensen, getting his hands on bras for Christmas is one of the most important aspects of running Change, a Danish lingerie chain.

That is why the director went so far as to borrow a helicopter on Monday morning to secure one of the last European Union import licences for bras.

“We had 45,000 panties in Christmas colours but their 45,000 matching bras were trapped in a warehouse,” said a relieved Mr Walther Jensen after his helicopter dash.

“Other companies are suffering. I’ve got my goods in but I don’t want to win market share this way.”

Thanks to Mr Walther Jensen’s imaginative approach, Change will be stocking matching lingerie this year.

But with the import quota for bras coming into the EU from China now exhausted - last night the stockpile of bras had already hit more than 1m - other retailers have got a problem on their hands.

“The packages under the Christmas trees this year won’t contain clothes,” said Poul Lauersen, chief financial officer of Bestseller, Denmark’s largest textiles group, which is short knitwear, blouses, tops and trousers.

“The shops won’t be empty but we are missing much of our autumn range,” said Mr Lauersen.

Across the EU, retailers are scrambling to find alternative places to source goods as the crisis over import from China deepens. Trousers, pullovers, bras, blouses, T-shirts and silk have now all exceeded the quota limits agreed by the EU and China in June.

Pär Darj, head of investor relations at Hennes Mauritz, the Swedish-based clothes retailer that sources about 30 per cent of its products from China, said: “In the short-term we are shifting some production of pullovers and trousers to Bangladesh, India and Cambodia.” A big UK retailer that asked not be named said it was doing the same thing. “More production is going to India. I think it will be the new China. This problem will get sorted. But there will be a delay in getting products on to shelves,” said the retail executive.

As the stockpile of clothes at EU custom points hit nearly 76m items, retailers are pushing harder than ever for a speedy resolution to the crisis. The large European retailers – Metro, Carrefour and H&M – are quick to point out that they can easily switch sourcing and so are less hard hit by the dispute than the smaller players with less scale and sourcing infrastructure.

Lindex, the Swedish-based market leader in underwear and children’s wear that made SKr5.3bn (€565m, £380m, $690m) in sales in 2005, said its early decision not to add to production in China – it sources about 60 per cent of product from Asia, the greater part from China – had paid off.

“We already have licences for all the products coming out of China,” said Ulrika Danielsson, head of communications at Lindex.

“Our customers won’t notice any impact. We will get all the products that we have ordered.”

But with the stockpile still growing at an alarming rate and no solution in sight, many retailers are unlikely to be feeling so sanguine.


And why all this mess? Because some dying industry cried that a 20 years transition period wasn't enough to prepare itself for Chinese imports.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 23-08-2005 22:25
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I for one support the move that will make women NOT wearing bras

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 23-08-2005 22:27
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

No amount of preparation would be enough to contend with Chinese textiles, they have an overwhelming absolute advantage in the area, and you need to make a decision about whether or not you want to have a native textile industry or not.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:37
  Old Post 23-08-2005 23:05
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until the advent of robot workers in light manufacturing, that is.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 23-08-2005 23:12
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Was that a dyeing industry? You might call this an attempted thread-jack.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:37
  Old Post 23-08-2005 23:16 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

All threadjacks require an appropriate punishment, wouldn't you agree?

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 23-08-2005 23:59
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Inflate your Upload Space

I just figured I'd skirt the issue.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 00:56
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I guess I'm just supposed to button it.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 01:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
until the advent of robot workers in light manufacturing, that is.


Their advantage goes a bit further then merely cheap labor.

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 01:45
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Tired of ads?

On the surface, the idea that European women will have to go braless (and perhaps pantyless) seems titillating. But then, reality kicks in and you realize that for most women, it is far better that they do wear bras (and panties).

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I for one support the move that will make women NOT wearing bras


Or shirts

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 19:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
No amount of preparation would be enough to contend with Chinese textiles, they have an overwhelming absolute advantage in the area, and you need to make a decision about whether or not you want to have a native textile industry or not.


A country either backs free trade or not, but can't support free trade only when it suits its interests.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 20:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I for one support the move that will make women NOT wearing bras


Nah - uplift is uplifting!

Anyway - there are too many China threads!

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 20:20
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quote:

Their advantage goes a bit further then merely cheap labor.


?

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
quote:

Their advantage goes a bit further then merely cheap labor.


?


The government also helps out quite a bit with land,fuel, and other items.

quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
A country either backs free trade or not, but can't support free trade only when it suits its interests.


which is one of the reasons I don't support free trade.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 22:43
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Actually, free trade is a Republican fantasy, and because of that - see Whoha's post above - we are getting killed in International trade, because other countries, for a variety of reasons, do a better job of protecting, developing, and supporting their industries. Thus we have Toyota, Airbus, Eurocopter, and the name escapes me of the Chinese company that bought out IBM's PC manufacturing. Protectionism and government supports CAN work if done intelligently. If you don't believe me - look at the Current Account deficit, or the trade deficit. $600 plus billion a year.

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 22:45 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
A country either backs free trade or not, but can't support free trade only when it suits its interests.


That all depends on whether one country's idea of free trade involves doing it off the backs of virtual slaves...

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 22:45 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Protectionism is a losing proposition. Always. I thought the economists on Poly had made this clear to everyone.

Some women going bra-less is just an unintended feature.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 23:10
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DanS - there is no question that trade wars are losing propositions. However, if you look for example at Eurocopter and Airbus, since they are in my industry - they have shredded US Aerospace companies, they are gaining market share, and have definitely hurt our current account balance.

Given that success, how can you make a blanket statement that Protectionism is a always a losing proposition? Look at China right now. Account for the success stories in your statement, rather than make a pronouncement. Note, when quoting the US economic miracle, please track median wages corrected for inflation and budget deficits as well as "unemployment". Speaking of which, also track real unemployment, not unemployment claims. The US underreports those numbers due to our methodology. Finally, track research and education quality. The WSJ just had a humdinger of a column on the US research gap, BTW.

(note - I won't be ignoring you, I'm just going to sleep. I'll try to check your reply tonight. )

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 23:20 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

The cure is always worse than the disease. The fact is that there is a net benefit to free trade, no matter that your trading partners are protectionists or wasting their own money on subsidies.

Tattila the Hun is offline Tattila the Hun
Prince
Tornio
Oct 2002
time: 07:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 00:05
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I have something to say, but as I'm boycotting this thread, I will not say it.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 00:31
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quote:
However, if you look for example at Eurocopter and Airbus, since they are in my industry - they have shredded US Aerospace companies, they are gaining market share, and have definitely hurt our current account balance.


Good for them. What's the point?

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 11:50
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Highing paying jobs, with their grabbing market share from US companies (want to buy a McDonnel-Douglas jetliner - you cannot, they de facto folded). That's the point for them. My point was that Free Trade does not necessarily work, and that instead well thought out and carefully targeted protectionism instead can be an excellent strategy. Instead of global economic principals, I am giving precise examples where not only have the protectionists come out ahead, but the Free Trade proponents have definitely been hurt. As I stated before, Free Trade per se, as practiced in the real world, is a fantasy, and one that IMHO (with multiple examples given) has hurt the US in multiple areas. If protectionism doesn't work - look at the Chinese economic "miracle".

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:00 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
My point was that Free Trade does not necessarily work


And I'm telling you that the best available economic theory shows that free trade is a net benefit no matter what our trading partners do.

That's why the US has had a free trade policy for decades, through both Republican and Democratic administrations and congresses.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:26 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Didn't Greenspan this week warn against too much protectionism?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:29
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS

That's why the US has had a free trade policy for decades, through both Republican and Democratic administrations and congresses.


*cough* lumber *cough*

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:42
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Thats what's paticular irritating, notyoureither not only makes a good point - but US targeted protectionism is STUPID. We protect a lumber industry where at times the US Government essentially pays the lumber companies to cut the lumber - and we let the Euros gut our Aerospace Industry. Not only does the US engage in it's own protectionism - we're stupid about it, and both parties win the moron award on that one.

DanS - not everyone agrees, though I will grant your point that mainstream US academic theory agrees with you. The problem with many of those "proofs" is that they use a strawman - so-called free trade against broad-based protectionism. If you look carefully at my choice of words, I stated "carefully targeted protectionism." I gave concrete examples, you give academic thoery.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:45 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


*cough* lumber *cough*


The exception proves the rule.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:50 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
I gave concrete examples


I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the American aerospace industry needed to be shaken up. It would be best if this shakeup was from completely fair outside competition, but having unfair outside competition is still better than having no outside competition at all.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:55
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DanS - so now we deserve unfair trade that guts our industry? That is a unique perspective, to say the least. Let's get into farm subsidies (the Euros have almost forced us into that one, IMHO), which have also hurt US farmers and our budget, and which have been devastating to small, third world farmers.

 
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