24-08-2005 05:16									#1
	Use Steroids? Kick 'Em Out of the Hall Inflate your Upload Space

But not the Hall you think...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page...ge=caple/050823

quote: All the fans, columnists and radio talk-show hosts are right. Steroid use taints every statistic in the book. We don't know what the records really mean anymore. Because the league dragged its heels so long over steroid testing, there is a black cloud of suspicion over an entire generation of players. Because we can't know for sure who the guilty players are, we likewise can't know for sure who is completely innocent. That means every player and every accomplishment is suspect in the Steroid Era. Thus, there is only one appropriate way to handle this. It's unfortunate, but to be fair to the great players who achieved their milestones honestly, we must paint with the broad brush the public demands. We must fill the record books with asterisks and close the Hall of Fame doors to everyone from the Steroid Era. I'm talking, of course, about the NFL and its Steroid Era. The NFL didn't begin testing for steroids until 1987, didn't suspend anyone until 1989 and didn't start year-round testing until 1990. New Orleans coach Jim Haslett recently estimated that when he played (1979-87) half of NFL players and all the linemen took steroids. Steve Courson, a part-time starter on Pittsburgh's 1979 championship team, admits he took steroids and Haslett charged that the Steelers' four Super Bowl championships were fueled by steroids. So bust the Canton busts of the nine Hall of Fame Steelers from the Steroid Era. Granted, we don't know whether Terry Bradshaw, Mike Webster, Joe Greene, Franco Harris, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Mel Blount, Jack Lambert and Jack Ham swallowed anything stronger than the Coca-Cola that kid handed Mean Joe in the commercial, but when it comes to steroids, the American public has made it very clear that you're guilty until proved innocent. And if one person points a vague finger, that's good enough. Likewise, I don't have any knowledge that Eric Dickerson used steroids, but he set the single-season rushing record three years before the NFL started testing and more than half his career rushing total came before his first urine specimen. Put a big asterisk next to that record 2,105 and boot Dickerson out of the Hall of Fame. True, there's no evidence that Walter Payton ingested any performance enhancer stronger than a bowl of Wheaties, but how can we know for sure? He played his entire career during the Steroid Era. That taints everything Payton did. And if Haslett's estimate about steroid use among linemen is even half right, that means Payton received blocks from players using performance enhancers. That's not a Hall of Fame performance, that's cheating. Toss Sweetness out of Canton, too. Dan Marino holds the career marks for touchdown passes, yards passing and completions, but his absolute best seasons -- including his 48- and 44-touchdown years -- were during the Steroid Era. We're supposed to believe those marks were thanks to the Isotoner gloves he gave his receivers each Christmas? Please. It doesn't matter whether Marino never personally took steroids; if just one of his receivers or just one of his linemen did, the stats are bogus. Kick him out of the Hall. How can we consider Lawrence Taylor the greatest linebacker ever when some of his best seasons came during the Steroid Era? We already know how many other drugs he put into his system, would steroids really be such a stretch? Face it, any Hall of Famer who played a significant portion of his career in the Steroid Era is suspect and should be removed. Howie Long, Marcus Allen and James Lofton -- that means you. Dan Hampton, Earl Campbell and Jackie Slater -- hasta la vista, baby! Ronnie Lott, Randy White and Lee Roy Selmon -- get out of here, I mean it. Ozzie Newsome, Mike Singletary and Anthony Munoz -- don't let the turnstile hit you on the way out. Steve Largent, Dan Fouts and Tony Dorsett -- turn off all electronic devices and return your tray to its locked, upright position. John Riggins, Earl Campbell and Joe Montana -- the last chopper out of Canton is leaving and your names are on the flight manifest. And let's not limit ourselves to individual players. We need to readjust our attitudes about the most celebrated teams of all time. The 1985 Bears? Can we absolutely say that everything in Chicago's Refrigerator came from the grocery store instead of the pharmacy? The 1986 Giants? Can we really believe that it was just Gatorade in that bucket? Heck, the 49ers' whole West Coast offense might have been fueled by premium instead of regular, if you know what I mean. Once we make a clear, consistent statement about the NFL and the tainted records from its Steroid Era, perhaps then we'll finally be in a position to make some judgments about baseball's recent statistics. Once we apply the same standard to the players from the NFL's Steroid Era, we can talk about how recent major leaguers should be evaluated by baseball's Hall of Fame. But until then, I don't want to hear anyone complain that baseball performances have been tainted or that players should be banned from Cooperstown. After all, if it never bothered you in one sport, why should it bother you in another?

I think the last line captures the double standard in people claiming that all the people from the baseball 'steroid era' should be kept from the Hall, but football's 'steroid era'? That doesn't matter, right?

	24-08-2005 05:20									#2
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steriods and drugs in general taint sports...every sport...period...well almost lets put down a ;because the problem is what is a drug and what not...i know that caffiene is on some lists but i personnely find that stupid....it is hard draw a line

	24-08-2005 06:16									#3
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This whole article bringsto mind the bret farve crap. He is an admited drug user, be that as it may he used persription drugs he got illegally, but was not suspended cause he went to the press and admitted he is addicted. Oh please they should have thrown his ass to the wolves like they did all the other players that year. Double standard yeah it exists like Micheal jordan gambeling on his sport and then coming back to make 30 million for less then half a season when pete rose was sent up the river for the same crime

	24-08-2005 06:33									#4
	Got spare money?

I don't actually care about steroids in any sport.

	24-08-2005 06:35									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm very much in two minds about this. I've been a weightlifter most of my life and while I've never used anything aside from legal supplements (and therefore have never won big) most of my competition and the guys I train with did and do use a variety of enhancements.

I dont really care if some moron fills himself with the latest designer drug. If I was on the verge of a multimillion dollar contract to play a game I probably would too.

The problem as I see it is when it becomes so pervasive that the highschool and middleschool kids take its use for granted and its certainly that pervasive down here. Thats the point that I have to vote 'thats enough' and if Terry Bradshaw or anyone else gets their reputation hurt - tough ****.

We can argue all day about whether pro athletes have a moral responsibility to their young fans. The facts are that until the various leagues take drastic action (as the tennis association does) this situation will never get better.

	24-08-2005 06:58									#6
	Suffering from ads?

cheater apologists

	24-08-2005 07:04									#7
	Suffering from ads?

I'm not an apologist. I just don't care about football or baseball at all.

	24-08-2005 07:09									#8
	Suffering from ads?

I use the performance enhancer marijuana when I'm writing. Sometimes I find that I write a bit better (or can focus my thoughts more clearly.)

Is my work, then, not of merit? Would it be right to deny Charlie Kaufman a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame if he admitted such a thing?

No, because it's "part of the game". I feel the same way about steroids. Steroids should be taken out of sports, yes, but the person should not be denied something they earned (I mean, come on, steroids does not a Hall-of-Fame player make.)

	24-08-2005 07:26									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I'm not an apologist. I just don't care about football or baseball at all.

why do you always think I'm talking about you?

	24-08-2005 08:25									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I agree with Imran for once. I think all the steroid media coverage is unfair and so is the people that dog these guys out. It is going on all the time, has gone on all the time, but people love to feel morally superior when someone is under suspicion or gets caught.

	24-08-2005 08:28									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Sava cheater apologists

Yes you are Sava... you support keeping Walter Payton, who played in the "Steroid Era", in the Football Hall of Fame! Shame on you, cheater apologist

	24-08-2005 08:32									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I agree with Imran for once. I think all the steroid media coverage is unfair and so is the people that dog these guys out. It is going on all the time, has gone on all the time, but people love to feel morally superior when someone is under suspicion or gets caught.

True dat, but most of the suspicion centers on athletes who may have used steroids when they weren't banned by baseball!! How absurd! If they use it when baseball bans it, then fine, do whatever. But to argue for taking stats out of the record books because of the era in which a guy played? Please!

And Mrs. Tubs, that's exactly right. Plenty of double standards in sports. I've definetly heard the suspicions that Michael Jordan's "retirement" was to avoid being banned for illegal gambling, but nothing conclusive. Would be interesting to see if it was true.

	24-08-2005 08:41									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yes you are Sava... you support keeping Walter Payton, who played in the "Steroid Era", in the Football Hall of Fame! Shame on you, cheater apologist

	24-08-2005 09:04									#14
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quote: Granted, we don't know whether Terry Bradshaw, Mike Webster, Joe Greene, Franco Harris, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Mel Blount, Jack Lambert and Jack Ham swallowed anything stronger than the Coca-Cola that kid handed Mean Joe in the commercial, but when it comes to steroids, the American public has made it very clear that you're guilty until proved innocent. And if one person points a vague finger, that's good enough.

Why should the war on steroids follow a different path than the drug war? Both require placing the blame of the guilty on the innocent...

	24-08-2005 10:20									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I don't actually care about steroids in any sport.

	24-08-2005 10:41									#16
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I hope to think the point here aint just about steriods and the use of them, But about the standards that folks are using when deciding which guys can be considered to be a great sportsman or a dick. There are many things to decide the getting into hall of fame. some deserve it some dont. I bet i can ask alot of baseball fans and most would say sammy sosa might deserve to get in.. I am sorry you compare steriods to corked bat it all equals the same cheating is cheating. Steriods is a way of cheating. I will not go so far as to say they dont deserve the fame, cause most of them are probably good with out the help.

	24-08-2005 18:53									#17
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quote: But about the standards that folks are using when deciding which guys can be considered to be a great sportsman or a dick

Well I think it's a little of both, but mostly about the standards used when observing two people that do the same things.

quote: I bet i can ask alot of baseball fans and most would say sammy sosa might deserve to get in.. I am sorry you compare steriods to corked bat it all equals the same cheating is cheating.

One small caveat, during the 90s, steroids weren't banned by baseball. But I agree with the overall point. We just put in the biggest spitballer in history (after it was banned from the game) into the HoF. And we laughed about finding vaseline or sandpaper on pitchers!

	24-08-2005 19:22									#18
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Who cares about the football HOF? Or football stats, for that matter?

Imran is missing the differences between the sports. Baseball is a game of shrines, of traditions, of historical stats lovingly studied. Football is what you watch on the television when you want to see guys lining up and hitting each other. Baseball is a quasireligion, Football is a mere entertainment.

	24-08-2005 19:36									#19
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and another thing...

we can't travel back in time and test individual players. Sure, we might know that 50% of football players used steroids... but who specifically?

With baseball, there are positive tests proving guys are guilty. And it's even worse for baseball because the testing standards are so low... only the DUMBEST ****ING PLAYERS are getting caught. There's no blood tests... there's no test for human growth hormone. And the penalties are a joke.

There's no double standard. If there were positive tests proving guys guilty in other sports then I would treat them the same as I do as the baseball cheaters.