24-08-2005 17:02									#1
	Have we forgotten the families of the 52 who were killed on purpose on 7/7? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

de Menezes was not deemed an innocent man at the time; those on the bus were. Why the attention on de Menezes and ignorance of the plight of the other families. Truly shocking how brits can't care as much for each other as for a single Brazilian family.

	24-08-2005 17:03									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Discuss.

	24-08-2005 17:05									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Is it okay to care about both of those groups?

	24-08-2005 17:10									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't think the 52 victims and their families will be forgotten anytime soon. The memory of the attack by the barbarians on London will be reminded.

The reason why de Menezes is so big in the news is because the death of this innocent is baffling. It's expected of the barbarians to kill innocents. It's not expected of the police of a democracy.

	24-08-2005 17:20									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why is anyone posting in a thread with Spink and Cali as the first two posters?

	24-08-2005 17:37									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Hueij Why is anyone posting in a thread with Spink and Cali as the first two posters?

Because is a highly pertinent point being asked at the moment by some perceptive members of British press.

	24-08-2005 18:00									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Hueij Why is anyone posting in a thread with Spink and Cali as the first two posters?

Good question

	24-08-2005 18:37									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The de Menezes thing has been getting a bit hysterical. As Spiffor said, it is truly baffling how he came to be killed, but there's a whiff of Ambulence-chasing by various parties trying to make capital out of the death.

The fact that a thousand people have apparantly been killed in Brazil by police in the last year is rather ironic, but the delegation from the Brazilian authorities have mysteriously declared themselves to be satisfied that there has been "no cover up", despite apparant evidence to the contrary. Hmm...

Getting to the bottom of this bizzare killing is one thing, but wallowing in a grief fest won't help at all. In fact while I'm on the subject, we will never forget the 52 but we shouldn't wallow in their loss either. The response of Londoners was resolute, which minimised the impact of the terror, but then the authorities chose to formalise the reaction through regulated public displays of grief, which maxed-out the terror's impact.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone here, but I have to say that the public's spontaneous reaction to 7/7 on the day was far more moving and memorable than the official weep-ins.

	24-08-2005 18:48									#10
	Remove this text

i think it's also a great shame that the de menezes thing is being hijacked by the extreme left.

	24-08-2005 19:31									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'll save PA the trouble of dancing around the issue.

de Menezes was a brown man... WHO GIVES A **** WHEN WHITE PEOPLE WERE KILLED?

	24-08-2005 19:39									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

He didn't look very brown to me.

	24-08-2005 19:45									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia He didn't look very brown to me.

be honest


he wasn't white enough

	24-08-2005 20:04									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

As far as I'm concerned he looks white.

	24-08-2005 20:05									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

but he's not anglo

	24-08-2005 20:19									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia As far as I'm concerned he looks white.

Meaning there was even LESS reason for the cops to shoot him! We all know terrorist can only be brown or black, except for those werido papists from Ireland, but they are nothing but dirty Celts anyways, not good germanic or scandinavian stock.

	24-08-2005 20:25									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

it's all because brits (even their police) are supposed to be better than the "barbarians" and not kill innocents. it's very healthy for the british people to hugely react when police shoots (not once, but seven times actually) an innocent with very little information and quick assumptions

	24-08-2005 20:26									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Sava but he's not anglo

There's no 'anglo' look, no racial specification. You just have to like beer and football, but even those are optional

Menezes looks Portuguese, FWIW.

	24-08-2005 20:40									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

somehow i don't see the link between the thread title and the opening post...

no we didn't forget the victims of 7/7
and no we won't forget de menezes...

	24-08-2005 20:46									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MarkG it's all because brits (even their police) are supposed to be better than the "barbarians" and not kill innocents. it's very healthy for the british people to hugely react when police shoots (not once, but seven times actually) an innocent with very little information and quick assumptions

Of course there should be concern and a full investigation, but what we're getting now is over-reaction.

The authorities on 22/7 were doing what ordinary people weren't doing - which was panicking. They panicked when they shot him, panicked while they covered it up, and panicked when they tried to cover-up the cover-up. That's why it looks so bad. A lethal balls up by nervy authorities should not be equated with a calculated campaign of mass-murder. Coppers accidently kill people in car chases from time to time but it's not considered the end of our civilisation.

You'd think from the media reaction that there was a state-sponsored pogrom of Brazlians, rather than an Islamist massacre of British civilians.

	24-08-2005 20:52									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

PA really doesn;t give a **** about de menezes getting shot, so he trots out the old right-wing cache that we need to remember OUR blood spilled (de menezes wasn't one of US) and think of nothing else!

	24-08-2005 20:53									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

dan and ge gap, well over here there's been a massive amount of media coverage about the de menezes shooting, you can't turn the telly on or pick up a paper these days without seeing another story about it. there's been a bit of a backlash against this from some quarters in recent days, not least from the families of the victims of 7/7 who (understandably IMO) feel that the deaths of the 52 victims have been overshadowed by the row over de menezes' death.

edit: damn x-posters.

	24-08-2005 20:55									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

My bet is that there was FAR MORE time spent on talking about 7/7 and 7/21 than de menezes, if you count all the media time spent- do the families intent to keep the lime light forever?

	24-08-2005 20:57									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

well you can 'bet' all you like, but people like me and cort have the advantage of actually seeing the media coverage we're talking about...

	24-08-2005 21:00									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

My bet is based simply on the fact that covergare of 7/7 was 24 hours, even here in the US, for a couple of days.

Heck, the press spends lots of time on the Cindy Sheehan story here in the US, that does not mean saturatuion coverage, nor that Cindy Sheehan will get more time than say the Michael Jackson trial got.

And from the posts here, its pretty obvious that the split is between those that think the shooting was wrong and those that understand it, and find it at most a regrettable mistake.

More newsworthy is the milking of the story by the Brazilian government, which is really pushing it.

	24-08-2005 21:02									#26
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by C0ckney well you can 'bet' all you like, but people like me and cort have the advantage of actually seeing the media coverage we're talking about...

and I'm confident that you are conducting a scientific study on media coverage

	24-08-2005 21:08									#27
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

gepap, well yeah sure, 7/7 got a heck of a lot of coverage, for obvious reasons.

it's just that from some of the coverage of the de menezes shooting over the last couple of weeks that some people in the media have forgoten that it happend in the wake of two (one failed) terrorist attacks on london.

	24-08-2005 21:11									#28
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by C0ckney gepap, well yeah sure, 7/7 got a heck of a lot of coverage, for obvious reasons. it's just that from some of the coverage of the de menezes shooting over the last couple of weeks that some people in the media have forgoten that it happend in the wake of two (one failed) terrorist attacks on london.

And how exactly does covering the shooting mean anyone has forgotten the circumstances under which it happened???

That statement only makes sense under this mode of thinking:

The shooting of de menezes was a sad accident, but the police were right in doing so to protect us. Stop attacking the police for protecting us from the bad guys, stuff happens.

So in the end, the discussion returns to a discussion of the merits of the act, simply disguised as a arguement about media time.

And we already have a thread about this incident.

	24-08-2005 21:19									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i love the way you say all that, desite not living here and having seen none of what is being talked about

i think the problem people are having with it, not least the families of the 7/7 victims is summed up quite nicely by cort haus, here.

quote: You'd think from the media reaction that there was a state-sponsored pogrom of Brazlians, rather than an Islamist massacre of British civilians.

	24-08-2005 21:21									#30
	Tired of ads?

No-one is saying the shooting was OK, but a lot of people are drawing a false equivalence between an accident and a massacre for cynical political gain.

The problem is is that the media coverage of the shooting doesn't actually tell us anything or get us anywhere. No information (except the occasional investigation leak) is forthcoming, just grief-porn for its own sake.