26-08-2005 05:01									#61
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I'm not sure if I support this kind of restriction on playing time or not. But I think I do support it. Blizzard kind of tried to implement something like it in WoW with the rested experience, at one point in beta it acted as a penalty for playing too long (your character got "tired" and gained less exp). Powergamers were (predictably) outraged and blizzard changed it to be purely positive - a "bonus" for those who didn't play much, and on a per-character rather than per-account basis.

Unfortunately such 3/5 hour enforcement wont really do much good. Powergamers will either buy multiple accounts of the same game or play different MMORPGs in rotation to get their fix. The law might actually be profitable for the MMORPG companies since (some) players will have more simultaneous subscriptions.

	26-08-2005 12:43									#62
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When you talk about "rule of law" in China, you have to bear in mind that the idea is only about 25 years old on the mainland. You won't find many old lawyers here.

With the current system of government, it's hard to see how "rule of law" can ever be completely implemented. The CCP seems very unlikely to voluntarily give up power and decision-making authority to some code of laws presided over by an impartial judicial system.

	26-08-2005 12:44									#63
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No more Chinese Gold/Plat farmers

	26-08-2005 12:46									#64
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I think you can make a good case of what DaShi mentioned about responsibility for making decisions. As he said, under the one child policy, many children (especially boys) have their every whim catered to. For example, if there aren't enough seats on the subway, a mother will stand in order that her teenage son can sit.

Also, urban Chinese youth are in some ways less socially mature than their western counterparts, further impairing their ability to make responsible decisions for themselves. Many of my under age 25 Shanghainese students have never cooked a meal, washed dishes, done housework, laundry, or ironing. Some have never made their own bed.

One of my one-on-one students is a wonderful woman my age (forties), a successful corporate exec, husband the same. When their chubby mid-teens son is at home from boarding school, he basically lives in his bedroom playing online games. Recently, during summer vacation, his mother wanted to spend some "quality time" with him, so she asked him to accompany her on a business trip to some city out west, they would stay over the weekend and just have fun together.

He said he wanted to think about it for a day. The next day he calmly informed her that he would rather stay at home and play computer games. She was crestfallen, and ultimately made the trip alone.

This is the reality of the online gaming problem among urban Chinese kids.

Like most any westerner, I bridle at the idea of a government dictating how I entertain myself. Yet, when I see these pc-addicted kids, some of them dropping out of school, I can see a real social problem that someone needs to address. Since so many parents are unwilling to go against their child's wishes, that pretty much leaves the government in some capacity.

It's not a simple issue of personal freedom, it's about a social problem involving a kind of addiction that is negatively affecting the lives of many young people, not much differently than the abuse of some narcotic.

Last edited by mindseye on 26-08-2005 at 13:08

	26-08-2005 13:54									#65
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Let's be kind to UR here . We know that he lives in an oppressive communist state . He might be defending these actions , not because he wants to defend them ( or agrees with them ) , but because he has to defend them - he may be arrested if the Internet censors in China catch him saying anything against the "People's State" .

And this is also the reason that I am not too concerned with China as a threat ( economic or military ) - keep them at bay long enough , and they will collapse under the weight of their own stupidity .

	26-08-2005 16:03									#66
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye I think you can make a good case of what DaShi mentioned about responsibility for making decisions. As he said, under the one child policy, many children (especially boys) have their every whim catered to. For example, if there aren't enough seats on the subway, a mother will stand in order that her teenage son can sit. Also, urban Chinese youth are in some ways less socially mature than their western counterparts, further impairing their ability to make responsible decisions for themselves. Many of my under age 25 Shanghainese students have never cooked a meal, washed dishes, done housework, laundry, or ironing. Some have never made their own bed. One of my one-on-one students is a wonderful woman my age (forties), a successful corporate exec, husband the same. When their chubby mid-teens son is at home from boarding school, he basically lives in his bedroom playing online games. Recently, during summer vacation, his mother wanted to spend some "quality time" with him, so she asked him to accompany her on a business trip to some city out west, they would stay over the weekend and just have fun together. He said he wanted to think about it for a day. The next day he calmly informed her that he would rather stay at home and play computer games. She was crestfallen, and ultimately made the trip alone. This is the reality of the online gaming problem among urban Chinese kids. Like most any westerner, I bridle at the idea of a government dictating how I entertain myself. Yet, when I see these pc-addicted kids, some of them dropping out of school, I can see a real social problem that someone needs to address. Since so many parents are unwilling to go against their child's wishes, that pretty much leaves the government in some capacity. It's not a simple issue of personal freedom, it's about a social problem involving a kind of addiction that is negatively affecting the lives of many young people, not much differently than the abuse of some narcotic.

Thanks for your excellent analysis from a western point of view (as usual). It is particularly interesting to me to hear some of the pitfalls of the one child policy in regards to family relations. Parents hold their children closer (too close in some instances) and children miss the immensely stimulating impact of sibling relations. There is much more to this than a simple disparity in genders.

	26-08-2005 16:12									#67
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye He said he wanted to think about it for a day. The next day he calmly informed her that he would rather stay at home and play computer games. She was crestfallen, and ultimately made the trip alone. This is the reality of the online gaming problem among urban Chinese kids.

Pah, a real mother would have taken her child with her nevertheless. Sometimes you have to open their eyes when they don't want to look for themselves.
I wonder what Ozzy would think about that.

	26-08-2005 16:29									#68
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quote: I think you can make a good case of what DaShi mentioned about responsibility for making decisions. As he said, under the one child policy, many children (especially boys) have their every whim catered to. For example, if there aren't enough seats on the subway, a mother will stand in order that her teenage son can sit. Also, urban Chinese youth are in some ways less socially mature than their western counterparts, further impairing their ability to make responsible decisions for themselves. Many of my under age 25 Shanghainese students have never cooked a meal, washed dishes, done housework, laundry, or ironing. Some have never made their own bed.

You get a lot of spoiled brats who've never cooked their own meal in Seoul too but having adults stand up to make room for teenagers If they tried to pull that **** here they wouldn't last a second, nobody does that to the dread ajummas (middle-aged married women).

It seems like that, while China has a lot of good sides, EVERY SINGE ONE of my pet peeves of about Korea exists in a bizarrely-concentrated form in China. In many ways Korea is a pretty good mid-way point between Chinese and Japanese culture...

	26-08-2005 16:42									#69
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quote: Pah, a real mother would have taken her child with her nevertheless

And beat the crap out of him

	26-08-2005 17:21									#70
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye I think you can make a good case of what DaShi mentioned about responsibility for making decisions. As he said, under the one child policy, many children (especially boys) have their every whim catered to. For example, if there aren't enough seats on the subway, a mother will stand in order that her teenage son can sit. Also, urban Chinese youth are in some ways less socially mature than their western counterparts, further impairing their ability to make responsible decisions for themselves. Many of my under age 25 Shanghainese students have never cooked a meal, washed dishes, done housework, laundry, or ironing. Some have never made their own bed. One of my one-on-one students is a wonderful woman my age (forties), a successful corporate exec, husband the same. When their chubby mid-teens son is at home from boarding school, he basically lives in his bedroom playing online games. Recently, during summer vacation, his mother wanted to spend some "quality time" with him, so she asked him to accompany her on a business trip to some city out west, they would stay over the weekend and just have fun together. He said he wanted to think about it for a day. The next day he calmly informed her that he would rather stay at home and play computer games. She was crestfallen, and ultimately made the trip alone. This is the reality of the online gaming problem among urban Chinese kids. Like most any westerner, I bridle at the idea of a government dictating how I entertain myself. Yet, when I see these pc-addicted kids, some of them dropping out of school, I can see a real social problem that someone needs to address. Since so many parents are unwilling to go against their child's wishes, that pretty much leaves the government in some capacity. It's not a simple issue of personal freedom, it's about a social problem involving a kind of addiction that is negatively affecting the lives of many young people, not much differently than the abuse of some narcotic.

So you're saying that the one-child policy , which is the restriction of a preson's reproductive freedom , led to another repressive policy ? How communist . . . . . . . . .

	26-08-2005 23:20									#71
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quote: Originally posted by aneeshm Let's be kind to UR here . We know that he lives in an oppressive communist state . He might be defending these actions , not because he wants to defend them ( or agrees with them ) , but because he has to defend them - he may be arrested if the Internet censors in China catch him saying anything against the "People's State" . And this is also the reason that I am not too concerned with China as a threat ( economic or military ) - keep them at bay long enough , and they will collapse under the weight of their own stupidity .

Well, the about UR is that he doesn't live in an oppressive communist state, not from the CCP's lack of trying. Hong Kong still has many more freedoms that are simply not found on the mainland. That's what makes UR's stance so galling. However, I will point out that many mainland CCP supportors were given special benefits in order to move them Hong Kong where they can spread a pro-CCP message. This is a smaller version of what is done in Tibet and Xinjiang, where it's simply criminal.

In response to mindseye's well-written post: Why make your bed, if it's just going to get messed up again?

	26-08-2005 23:25									#72
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Oy, I bet all the anti-video game and child protectionist nuts here in this country are gonna start thinking these damn Chinese are onto something. I could totally picture something like this being done in this country. They'd just impose an age restriction on it to avoid any messy legality issues. No more than 3 hours of consecutive playing if you are under 18.

	27-08-2005 00:52									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Verto One quick point: China is a ****ing abomination that should've been bombed into oblivion decades ago.

Verto, you could have done a better photoshop job. For one, the fonts in the window don't match, they're not centered, and they're of the wrong size. A disappointment, considering your previous artwork.

	27-08-2005 00:54									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Only democratic countries should be allowed to host the Olympics.

Which is why South Korea got it in 1988.

Never mind the fact that it was the arrival of the Olympics that helped catalyze the transition from an authoritarian state, pre-1987, to a modern East Asian democracy in 1994.

	27-08-2005 00:54									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Sava we should boycott the olympics because: 1. it sucks 2. hardly any of the events are actual sports (exceptions being hockey... and... I can't think of any others) 3. probably 75% of the athletes are doping 4. the incessant "hard luck" stories being shoved down our throats 5. professional athletes are more entertaining (and probably would do better... in his prime, I bet Deion Sanders would pwn every sprinter... just put like $30 million at the finish line ) 6. it sucks 7. nationalism sucks

#4 is a matter of NBC's broadcasting, not the Olympics themselves.

	27-08-2005 01:02									#76
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Oy, I bet all the anti-video game and child protectionist nuts here in this country are gonna start thinking these damn Chinese are onto something. I could totally picture something like this being done in this country. They'd just impose an age restriction on it to avoid any messy legality issues. No more than 3 hours of consecutive playing if you are under 18.

QOTM and I monitor POTM's computer time, and I think we'd have an issue with more than 3 hours straight doing most anything on the PC, whether its games or online, though we're more inclined to be lenient on email and IM, since we like we support her "bonding" with her friends. But we dont need the state to help out. And shes rather young to hang out at internet cafes, which never really hit it big here.

Interesting that they seem to limit this to MMOG's not other forms of gaming.

	27-08-2005 01:08									#77
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quote: Interesting that they seem to limit this to MMOG's not other forms of gaming.

Go to www.purepwnage.com and watch the 6th and 7th episodes.

	28-08-2005 23:30									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander (...) pitfalls of the one child policy in regards to family relations (...) children miss the immensely stimulating impact of sibling relations. There is much more to this than a simple disparity in genders.

There is an interesting shift taking place in the language related to this.

With family hierarchy so important, there are many words in Chinese to precisely describe the relationships between family members. For example, I believe there are six words for "cousin".

But recently locals have taken to abandoning all the cousin terms, and now routinely refer to their cousins as "brother" or "sister" -- even introducing them that way to outsiders.

It looks to some degree like cousins (for those who have them) are filling the social void of siblings. I often encounter teenage cousins hanging out together. It is so common that whenever a young person introduces a "sibling", I automatically ask if they have the same parents (they seldom do).

	28-08-2005 23:31									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed #4 is a matter of NBC's broadcasting, not the Olympics themselves.

fair enough

	28-08-2005 23:52									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Bosh You get a lot of spoiled brats who've never cooked their own meal in Seoul too but having adults stand up to make room for teenagers If they tried to pull that **** here they wouldn't last a second, nobody does that to the dread ajummas (middle-aged married women).

While moms will sometimes stand for teens on the subway, for children anyone will stand - even adult strangers. And in China, that's saying something. People here seldom give up seats to anyone, in fact they will race to beat others to a seat (even adult men rushing past women). But the two consistant exceptions are made for children and pregnant women, who are always immediately offered a seat. Old woman with heavy bags? Forget it. Ten year old kid? Here, take my seat! On the subway you can vividly see how important children are here.

quote: It seems like that, while China has a lot of good sides, EVERY SINGE ONE of my pet peeves of about Korea exists in a bizarrely-concentrated form in China. In many ways Korea is a pretty good mid-way point between Chinese and Japanese culture...

BTW, you probably know Korean culture is definitely gaining in popularity here. Film, tv, pop stars, restaurants - Korea is the perfect substitute as things Japanese lose a bit of their "coolness".

	29-08-2005 00:00									#81
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Why make your bed, if it's just going to get messed up again?

Heh-heh, I was going to suggest you probably had an ayi or two, then I recalled that I hadn't made my own bed today.