31-08-2005 17:57									#31
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I would love, if a very limited number of units could move on mountains. Perhaps guerillas and mountain infantry. Mountainous areas are the favorite playground for the former, and the latter would have to be created as counterweight.

I'd even say, let nobody build guerillas. There could be a diplomacy or espionage option to support the armed opposition in another country with money. The more gold you spend, the more guerillas will randomly pop in the mountainous area of that other country, forcing it to divert a part of its armed forces to deal with that problem. Of course, there should be a chance, that your actions will be discovered, and you take a diplomatic hit.

Would be interesting to know, if this can be modded in. So far everything looks moddable, however this change would demand a new menu option and I am unsure, if we can add one.

	31-08-2005 18:25									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py This reminds me of a great movie, The Wrath of God, or rather: Aguirre, der Zorn Gottes. It's about a large Spanish expedition to find El Dorado, the way they make the movie, you really see how hard it was to pass through the South American jungle.

Excellent movie.

	31-08-2005 18:46									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Would be interesting to know, if this can be modded in. So far everything looks moddable, however this change would demand a new menu option and I am unsure, if we can add one.

If you think about the fact that you seem to be able to write things in Python and C++, obviously even being able to write your own dlls for the game,
there seem to be few things that canīt be done (as long as you have enough programming skills that is ).

	31-08-2005 19:00									#34
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Windows programming ain't rocket science, so much for the skills, but so far I know only about one DLL that can be added to the game, and that is the customized AI code. DLLs are just that, libraries, and it does nothing good if they exist, if the main application does not call them.

	01-09-2005 09:15									#35
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you can mod in terrain-specific movement ("mountain" infantry) just by changing the xml...

	01-09-2005 09:19									#36
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all hail!

	01-09-2005 09:35									#37
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Thanks for coming, Oh Mighty Soren... give us what we want! Forgive us to ask! Read my sign!

Wow! I feel better now!

	01-09-2005 10:43									#38
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Thanks for clarifying, however this was not the question. The question was, if I can add an option to the diplomatic/espionage menu about "funding the armed opposition in another country".

	01-09-2005 14:34									#39
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Thanks for the info, Soren!

Btw, I wonder If there will be a GUI for editing the XML - if not, I guess there will be one before long

If I understand correctly, editing the main XML files will affect all games/scenarios etc, and when you create scenarios you can override settings from the global XML (like making units smaller regardless of the setting in the main XML file)...?

So if the editor is able to edit / generate XML files, then it should be possible to use it to edit the main XML settings?

Wow, that's a lot of ifs... I think I'll just wait for the release, this is giving me headaches.

	01-09-2005 16:02									#40
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it's good to see Soren posting. Thanks for the info.

deserts. I live in a desert. But of course the desert in modern times is no obstacle. in fact, it allows quicker transport than many other areas of land.

I'd like to do some research on this. How fast did Cortez cross the desert? I've been meaning to find info on this for a while. As I'm very, very interested in my state's history (and my regions's history). So if anyone knows any websites that details the early explorers progress through the deserts, post them here. I'm very interested in that sort of thing.

Of course Cortez crossed in fairly modern times. but what about native americans? They knew the desert well. Surely they could pass through at a decent pace. Of course, they never supported large armies. So many factors to consider...

	01-09-2005 21:10									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Thanks for clarifying, however this was not the question. The question was, if I can add an option to the diplomatic/espionage menu about "funding the armed opposition in another country".

funny, that's not what this thread's title is...

	02-09-2005 16:13									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Dis ... Of course Cortez crossed in fairly modern times. but what about native americans? They knew the desert well. Surely they could pass through at a decent pace. Of course, they never supported large armies. So many factors to consider...

Out in the real world "impassable" comes in many shades. Virtually all types of terrain can be navigated given the right training and equipment. I think the game should reflect that. Like allowing scouts to cross mountains that are impassable to everyone else(including workers/settlers). And let "desert warriors" cross deserts where other units must go round or risk dying.

Civ3 mountains are a joke, rather than preventing enemies access to your land they gives them a defensive boost while closing in on your cities...

	02-09-2005 16:25									#43
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quote: @bongo: And let "desert warriors" cross deserts where other units must go round or risk dying.

That goes in the direction of the terrain-based unit specialization I just mentioned in the units fortification thread...

I remember the way specialization was handled in Colonization, where workers could become seasoned workers through experience. It would be cool if units in Civ could become specialized for certain types of terrain by staying/fighting there and maybe even depending on where they were built (their native land). That way units built in desert cities would have a natural proficiency fro desert from the start...

	02-09-2005 16:58									#44
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower funny, that's not what this thread's title is...

Funny, but the mountain infantry Mr. Johnson was referring to, is a subject brought up by me (addressing the thread), however it was not my question.

Keep trying, one day you succeed. And don't forget to address the thread yourself, once you decide to criticize others.

	02-09-2005 17:06									#45
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While we're at it, why not dangerous waters as well?

There are many stretches of coast on this planet that are dangerous even to modern vessels

	02-09-2005 19:15									#46
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One of the big Civ3 mods--I think it was the Rhyse of Civilization one--made mountains and jungle impassable to all units except workers and explorers. I thought it worked very well, so I'm all for it.

	02-09-2005 19:42									#47
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quote: I would love, if a very limited number of units could move on mountains. Perhaps guerillas and mountain infantry.

Well, most guerillas and mountain infantry came after the industrial era, and I'd hope that after industrialization we could have some troops be able to go to the mountains.

	03-09-2005 04:14									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Thanks for clarifying, however this was not the question. The question was, if I can add an option to the diplomatic/espionage menu about "funding the armed opposition in another country".

yes, you can do that, but you'll have to wade into python for that...

	03-09-2005 06:25									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Windows programming ain't rocket science, so much for the skills, but so far I know only about one DLL that can be added to the game, and that is the customized AI code. DLLs are just that, libraries, and it does nothing good if they exist, if the main application does not call them.

Not this again, we've been over this. The DLL will contain the entire core game that is used to run Civ4, not just header files, not just helper libraries, not just AI code, it will be the full monty. It may not the most orthodox use of a DLL library to basically put your core code in it, but that doesn't make either impossible or untrue (in fact, when you read the GD article and think about it, it actually makes a lot of sense and you start to wonder why not more developers are doing this (even if they don't release the source code) -- but that's what they wrote the article for, to get the word out). This has been confirmed in public a dozen time over by numerous people from Firaxis and 2K Games. The Game Developer article goes into it in detail and is rather specific. Since it's copyrighted, I have to be careful with what I quote from it, but here are some tidbits (bolding mine):

quote: We decided that it would be advantageous to isolate the Civilization IV core game and AI in a DLL. This approach provides at least three benefits. First, the gamecore DLL code can be provided as an SDK to advanced modders who want to customize the intrinsic game code and structures. Second, other game engines, future versions of Civilization, different platforms, and other related applications and tools can easily use the DLL code.

The article goes on to discuss the details of this point, other (less relevant) advantages, and the challenges that this approach posed during development. Every time mention of the DLL is made, the article specifically makes mention of "game and AI code". It explains that the code had to be split in 'game core' code (to be included in the DLL) and engine/application code (e.g. hardware controls, third-party software, etc -- stuff to keep out of the DLL).

quote: This led to problems with game entities such as units and cities, whose classes had both game and engine entity code intermingled. Moving the engine entity code into another class residing outside the DLL seperated the code into logical parts [...]

The article then goes on to discuss the interface between the game core and the engine entity. So unit and city classes and the like will be at least partially represented in the DLL -- only parts dealing with graphics, sound and other engine-related parts won't be in the DLL.


As far as we've been told by Firaxis and 2K Games, you can completely rewrite the game, make a full Civ3, CtP2 or SMAC conversion if you want, you might even be able to able to make Civ4 an RTS game (Though that would depend highly on exactly how the DLL is structured and called by the engine -- I don't think I'd seriously want to do that but I'd be a fun project to see if it was possibe ) At least that's as far as we've been told. How accurate those statements are we won't know until the SDK is actually released, but there's no reason to believe them to be inaccurate. Firaxis is not *that* stupid that they'd build up such high expectations and then fall very far short on delivery... (Hold the Civ3 jokes please, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (said the Civ3-hater))

	03-09-2005 18:56									#50
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I could see Civ 4 making mountain passes very valuable...

quote: With its important pass routes between central and southern Europe, the Alps have been an area of transit trade since ancient times.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761562121/Alps.html

quote: The Muslims who controlled the mountain passes between France and Italy made the mistake of capturing Majolus, abbot of Cluny, and holding him for ransom. after gaining his freedom, the Burgundian warrior class drove the Muslims from their fortresses and restored secure land communication between France and Italy.

http://www.the-orb.net/textbooks/nelson/towns.html

	03-09-2005 19:40									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis yes, you can do that, but you'll have to wade into python for that...

You're gonna turn us all into programmers, you realise that don't you?


My opinion on that:

	03-09-2005 20:16									#52
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Meh, that's all I need...more competition.

	05-09-2005 15:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis yes, you can do that, but you'll have to wade into python for that...

Wonderful, thanks.

	05-09-2005 15:27									#54
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Oh and Locutus, calm down, rumor has it, that Adrenaline is dangerous in high doses.