27-08-2005 19:01									#1
	Great Leaders from the Battle of Abba Increase the size of your Attachments

Dear Hordesmen

We are now to enter the Battle of Abba with 20 or so veterans and 4 elites. This means chances for a Great Leader should be around 50 %. This Great Leader will emerge in Abba, possibly around Sidon Phoenix later.

The use of Great Leader should be located in Brutallica, on a Forbidden Palace, for four main reasons.

1. Brutallica puts the Great Leader to its quickest use

2. Brutallica will be the new center for our Eastern Provinces and thus a Forbidden Palace is the only way to handle corruption and waste.

3. Forbidden Palace will net more gains than Army or other wonders in terms of income, production, upkeep and so on.

4. We need that Southeastern Cultural Expansion to delay SE invasion forces, scouts and so on and sustain our East.

	28-08-2005 03:25									#2
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This violates my "armies first" doctrine, we're talking 18 hitpoints AC-armeis here



If you wondered, I'm too busy to run the numbers and see if the econimical gain of an FP outweigh the military advantage of an army. And I happen to like armies, they are very mongol

	28-08-2005 06:56									#3
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I too would like to see an army in the field. That is a well known fact. Whether that be an army of Ancient Cav, or Med Inf.


Yet we have three wonder projects in the pipeline:

Knights Templar - Crusader Unit every 5 turns
Mongol Crusaders... love the concept

Temple of Artmetis - Places a temple in every city
a great in for culture... an area our people lack

Foreign Palace - Extra Capital
Never to be ignored...



edit: thanks for the education on mgls etc not building great wonders as listed above... a bloody shame

Last edited by Paddy the Scot on 28-08-2005 at 14:59

	28-08-2005 08:57									#4
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Ok: TIME OUT!

A forbidden palace only helps out in determining the order of city distance--not city distance to capital. How does this work? Well--ever since C3C, corruption calcualtions have changed so that you no longer gain a benefit from having a bunch of cities at the same distance (OCP--optimum city placement), instead, the city founded most recently becomes the one that gains the benefit of being closest. The forbidden palace does NOT change this.

"Ok, Rob, what does the forbidden palace do then?"

The forbidden palace allows that cities close to it can replace cities further away from the capital as higher numbers.

"Ok, now I am really confused! What the &%$# did you just say?"

Well...it goes like this. Corruption is based on 1. city number (i.e. city 1 has less corruption than city 2 which has less than city 3...). 2. Distance from capital (forbidden palace no longer helps with this, so a figure-8 civ plan no longer helps) 3. Whether or not the Forbidden Palace (and/or Secret Police Headquarters) exists. 4. Presence of corruption-reducing structures (e.g. courthouse) 5. Presence of police (not possible until IA) 6. Choice of government.

"Ok, so what does this mean for us?"

It means that, although the Forbidden Palace will reduce corruption throughout the empire (and may dramatically reduce corruption in cities right near it--but at the expense of other cities) it will NOT be the great end-all for corruption.

I recommend that we produce an army with the first Military Great Leader (MGL) because a victorious army is needed to produce the small wonder, Herioc Epic. The Heroic Epic increases the chances of promotion for our units and for obtaining another MGL. Furthermore, we can produce the army in the city we take, so it is just as quick to make the army as a FP.

For the record, chances of promotion are:
Normal Civs
Elite to produce MGL 1:16
Vet to produce elite 1:12
Reg to produce vet 1:8
conscript to produce Reg 1:4

Us (military civs)
Elite to produce MGL 1:12
vet to elite 1:8
reg to vet 1:4
conscript to reg 1:2

If the Herioc Epic is produced, regular nations become the equivalent of militaristic ones. Militaristic ones go to:
elite makes MGL 1:8
vet to elite 1:4
reg to vet 1:2
conscript to reg 1:1 or 1: 1.5 (not sure about this one).

Edit: changed 'conscript to vet' to 'conscript to reg'; which was what I meant in the first place (obviously conscripts do not get promoted to vets immediately)

Last edited by Rcoutme2 on 28-08-2005 at 17:46

	28-08-2005 14:20									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes yes yes first MGL should build an army no question about it then second the Heroic Epic!

FP should only be rushed if we have a run on leaders, but that wont happen till we have an army be victorious and the HE

	28-08-2005 14:57									#6
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I like this

quote: Originally posted by Rcoutme2 ..................... I recommend that we produce an army with the first Military Great Leader (MGL) because a victorious army is needed to produce the small wonder, Herioc Epic. The Heroic Epic increases the chances of promotion for our units and for obtaining another MGL. Furthermore, we can produce the army in the city we take, so it is just as quick to make the army as a FP. For the record, chances of promotion are: Normal Civs Elite to produce MGL 1:16 Vet to produce elite 1:12 Reg to produce vet 1:8 conscript to produce Reg 1:4 Us (military civs) Elite to produce MGL 1:12 vet to elite 1:8 reg to vet 1:4 conscript to vet 1:2 If the Herioc Epic is produced, regular nations become the equivalent of militaristic ones. Militaristic ones go to: elite makes MGL 1:8 vet to elite 1:4 reg to vet 1:2 conscript to reg 1:1 or 1: 1.5 (not sure about this one).

Thank You Rob

	28-08-2005 15:49									#7
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ok, I give in to Army, with the Precondition Heroic Epic is built right away.

	28-08-2005 19:20									#8
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Excellent stuff Rob! (as usual). With the threats we face abroad right now and the above information, an army is the best choice for sure!

Looking forward to hearing the army's tales of life under General bongo!