28-08-2005 21:24									#31
	Re: Is America any different then Saudi Arabia? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen What is the purpose of goverment, in your opinion? Is it to protect the "rights" of the individual, as defined by the society?

Yes.

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen You *COULD* run for office or try to form a political movement but without massive financial or political backing, you are doomed to failure.

Well I am one of those few who actually IS leading a political movement here in this country. Your point is right, but misleading. Of course you need massive financial and political backing to be successful. But that's like saying you need legs in order to win a foot race.

You CAN come from obscurity to get massive financial and political backing if you work hard enough. It certainly isn't easy, I know that first hand, but it is absolutely possible. I fully expect it'll happen for me, and things are already starting to fall into place. Its just a matter of time. I'm not some blue blood elite either. I don't have powerful family or personal connections either to money or politics. I'm just a regular joe, but I'm working at it. And things are building.

We've gotten good press coverage, and some politicians are starting to take note (among them Hillary Clinton actually), it'll take time, but it'll happen.

The American Dream is still alive in this country. Its only problem is that people have turned cynical and refuse to believe.

	28-08-2005 21:30									#32
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You tell em KP... Some wish to give up and not even try... You are a classic example that people can make a difference. Some are just too lazy, and all they can do is whine like stuck pigs.

This is a simple troll... if it was a real discussion, it would have compared SA to many other countries that have similar problems... not the US. Just some more US bashing... just a troll.

	28-08-2005 21:34									#33
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quote: Has that ever happened? Google a list of our presidents, they are without exception, independently wealthy(from lower upper class, to ultra CEO level rich)-this is obvious and rather basic.

Bill Clinton was not born independently wealthy. He had to use his brilliant mind to get where he is today, and he did.

But even Bill started near the bottom, IIRC his first political office was attorney general of AR.

	28-08-2005 21:36									#34
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Bill Clinton was not born independently wealthy. He had to use his brilliant mind to get where he is today, and he did.

Didn't Reagan, too, come from a fairly modest background?

	28-08-2005 21:48									#35
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quote: Didn't Reagan, too, come from a fairly modest background?

Actually, yes, Reagan too...

And Carter...

Nixon? All I remember about his childhood is that he was a Quaker...

Johnson was another brilliant man born to a poor Southern background...

Eisenhower made his career first in the military, but it doesn't seem as though he was independently wealthy at birth either...

Kennedy and the Bushes are the only Presidents in the last 50 years that were born "with a silver spoon in their mouth".

	28-08-2005 21:48									#36
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2.4/10

	28-08-2005 21:50									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ming They have far less control over their goverment than we do... I bet the majority of people is SA would change their government...

I agree
and bet the western world wouldnīt like the way the SA government would change if the majority of the citizens living there were able to decide about the SA Government.
I assume religion would play a major role in the newly elected government

	28-08-2005 21:52									#38
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That would be their choice... And at least it would be that... a choice! We do have a choice in this country, so the comparisons are silly at best.

	28-08-2005 22:02									#39
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You can compare them
and the result would be that the acerage citizen in America is better off than the average Citizen in SA (although of course, america is also a big step away from some kind of ideal government [but all current governments are, although the swiss seem to be closer to some kind of ideal government than other countries ])

	28-08-2005 22:05									#40
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Yep... I don't claim that the US government is prefect or the best. Yeah... compare, fine. But to claim they are similar is just silly... obviously, more "real" education is needed by those that think they are similar.

	28-08-2005 22:14									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yep... I don't claim that the US government is prefect or the best. Yeah... compare, fine. But to claim they are similar is just silly... obviously, more "real" education is needed by those that think they are similar.

I was thinking a little more time devoted to getting out and making a difference than posting trolls on poly

	28-08-2005 22:16									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I was thinking a little more time devoted to getting out and making a difference than posting trolls on poly

The sad part is... some may actually believe the troll

	28-08-2005 22:18									#43
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As one of the more liberal Americans on the OT, I find it nigh-impossible to believe than anyone could possibly truly believe this troll without some underlying severe mental illness.

	28-08-2005 22:22									#44
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Do the "Where would you choose to live?" question, and that will prove its a troll.

	28-08-2005 22:53									#45
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Actually, yes, Reagan too... And Carter... Nixon? All I remember about his childhood is that he was a Quaker... Johnson was another brilliant man born to a poor Southern background... Eisenhower made his career first in the military, but it doesn't seem as though he was independently wealthy at birth either... Kennedy and the Bushes are the only Presidents in the last 50 years that were born "with a silver spoon in their mouth".

Nixon was probably born poorer than Clinton. His family was VERY poor when he was a kid.

	28-08-2005 23:36									#46
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It's not illusion of power when you get to vote your leaders. It's not illusion of power, when you can form organisations, political parties, and take direct action. It's not illusion of power, when you can protest freely and make the media work for your agenda. It's not illusion of power when you can search funding, private OR public, to have your voice heard.

THE MOST important thing. IT'S NOT illusion if you have more choices and options. It's a factual matter. You either have more or you don't. Illusion has nothing to do with it.

Maybe you should kick the illusion of living in 20 dollar philosophy class and step into the real world.

It's like asking, would you say MJ is guilty. No definite proof, ok.. would you let your kid sleep in his bed, in the ranch? **** NO! -Chapelle.

The question should be what are the similarities to US and SA, and those would be the letter S and that both are countries, and all the little things that applies to every single country. Other than that.. they're not the same.

	28-08-2005 23:47									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Az I think you might be confused with 'hookers', Heresson. Hooters is an american fast food chain. sort of.

They say a hungry man has bread on his mind

	28-08-2005 23:49									#48
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anyway nice to know you an expert on ME prostitution situation, including how the high players work their tricks across the borders, and all about that stuff.

I'm shocked. You prolly go to hell for this.

	29-08-2005 00:05									#49
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quote: Where's that?

Where does morality come from? The distinction between right and wrong, if there is no distinction, there is no morality or immorality.

quote: t appears that Berz still thinks that "morality" is both external and absolute. Neither is true.

Of course morality is absolute, raping women is immoral all the time, not some of the time as determined by the rapist or "society".

	29-08-2005 00:08									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Of course morality is absolute, raping women is immoral all the time, not some of the time as determined by the rapist or "society".

Of course?

IIRC, you're an atheist? The belief in absolute morality shares the same basic problems as theism; its untestable, and if true would appear to have no noticeable impact on the empirical world.

	29-08-2005 00:29									#51
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whose moral is right. I hope it's not the Taliban moral.

	29-08-2005 01:11									#52
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Yeah, you have them on tv But seriously the diff is of course not in the individual control over the gov, but over their own lives.

the difference being I can change the channel (and even block out the annoying religious channels). But when I was in Bahrain, I was forced to listen to those prayers. Yeah I guess I could have wore earplugs, but even earplugs can't block out all noise. You are still going to hear it.

	29-08-2005 02:08									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Of course morality is absolute, raping women is immoral all the time, not some of the time as determined by the rapist or "society".

It wasnīt immoral during the times of colonizations,
at least if the woman raped was black

AFAIK it also often wasnīt immoral in societies with slavery as long as the person raped was a slave.

Of course we in modern times now think it is immoral but thatīs really only a product of education and society.
Maybe we who live today will also be considered immoral by some future generations because we raised animals just for the purpose of being eaten and put our own profit above the well being of nature

	29-08-2005 02:10									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST It wasnīt immoral during the times of colonizations, at least if the woman raped was black AFAIK it also often wasnīt immoral in societies with slavery as long as the person raped was a slave. Of course we in modern times now think it is immoral but thatīs really only a product of education and society. Maybe we who live today will also be considered immoral by some future generations because we raised animals just for the purpose of being eaten and put our own profit above the well being of nature

what else are we supposed to eat? And don't tell me plants. . And aren't humans part of nature as well? Aren't we part (the top) of the food chain?

It's more immoral to raise animals as pets. In fact, there are a few nut job groups out there against people keeping pets.

	29-08-2005 02:25									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka anyway nice to know you an expert on ME prostitution situation, including how the high players work their tricks across the borders, and all about that stuff. I'm shocked. You prolly go to hell for this.

Hey, I'm going to ME in 1 month's time, I have to get prepared

	29-08-2005 02:28									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Dis what else are we supposed to eat? And don't tell me plants. . And aren't humans part of nature as well? Aren't we part (the top) of the food chain? It's more immoral to raise animals as pets. In fact, there are a few nut job groups out there against people keeping pets.

Maybe these future generations use food concentrates (or are really vegans [with food supplementals to give them those nutritients they donīt get out of plants]) and maybe they also donīt have pets for the reasons you stated
And maybe the pure thought of eating meat will cause them to instantly vomit

	29-08-2005 03:50									#57
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Most the the US is a lot wetter than KSA.

And we have less Oil.

	29-08-2005 04:12									#58
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Ming would it be more fair to compare voter control over government between local government in Chicago and SA?

	29-08-2005 04:15									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST It wasnīt immoral during the times of colonizations, at least if the woman raped was black AFAIK it also often wasnīt immoral in societies with slavery as long as the person raped was a slave. Of course we in modern times now think it is immoral but thatīs really only a product of education and society. Maybe we who live today will also be considered immoral by some future generations because we raised animals just for the purpose of being eaten and put our own profit above the well being of nature

I doubt we will ever be able to determine if 'nature' gives a damn one way or another what we do to it. That was never the case for the raped women.

	29-08-2005 04:16									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Hey, I'm going to ME in 1 month's time, I have to get prepared

What's bringing you to the ME? business or pleasure?