Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Other Games > Other Games > SP unlocking MP stuff
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Read the post, then vote (Time out:0 days after 31-08-2005, 00:47)
I like that feature
I'm neutral
I hate it
I just like the banana bomb
View Results [Edit Poll (moderators only)]
Author
Thread   
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Adagio is offline Adagio

Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 00:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
SP unlocking MP stuff Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

At some other board I'm having a huge conversation about a feature in a game, so now I decided to see what you guys think about it


The game is Worms (Mayhem to be exact, but fits to most Worms games AFAIK)
For those who don't know the game has both MP and SP. Some people play the game just for the SP, some just for the MP and some for both. I'm among the players who only play the game for the MP, and don't touch the SP part
The feature they have in the game is unlockables. When playing the story mode and the tutorials (and what other SP parts there is) you can unlock some stuff (new art/skins, levels, probably* some sounds, etc). Those unlockables can be used in MP, but can't be unlocked by playing MP**
The worst part of it all is that the SP missions are not just boring, but extremely boring. Doing those missions feels more like work than entertainment for me

My problem with this is that I want to play MP only. I have no reason to play the story mode except to get those unlockables, but unlocking them manually is just not worth it (because it feels like work instead of fun, and because I don't want to spend that much time with the game)

I just don't see why a game that for many people is a MP only game requires the player to play SP to unlock stuff that can be used in MP games! What is the point of doing it this way? I thought games was ment to entertain people? So far I can only see the negative parts in this, it has split people up in two groups; those who like the story mode, and those who doesn't. The first group is tired of hearing the people of the second group complain about this and tells everybody to finish the story mode themself... of course, since they like it they can't get into their head that we don't like it. The second group is tired that only those who like the story mode can get all the stuff in the game

Why didn't they just make it so that everything can be unlocked both in SP and in MP? That would be much easier and make less people mad at it.




* I don't have the game, so I might be mistaking about the sounds, but that's not the point

** Most of them anyway, I've heard that a few skins can be unlocked only during MP





What's your oppinion on this?

ZargonX is offline ZargonX
Emperor
Space
Sep 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 00:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, if all that is being unlocked in SP is bonus skins and such, I don't think it effects the MP game at all. Hence, I don't see it as much of a problem; you get what you want out of the game. Now, if it were weapons or somesuch that would actually effect MP gameplay, that'd be a whole different story.

Adagio is offline Adagio

Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 01:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I know that it doesn't actually effect gameplay directly, but IMO a great part of Worms is the comedy graphics



But the point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't make the game any better by having a rule like that, it only hurts the game, so why include it?

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
Deity
Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Sep 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 02:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sounds analogous to the PvE PvP debate in GW. I like the unlocking through PvE (though in GW you can unlock through PvP also) but it helps that the PvE is fun.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 06:11
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

The GW way is good, as these unlockable things are gainable through both styles of play. Restricting the unlocking to just one style of play is stupid and (for want of a better word) restricting.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 09:23
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I see these "unlockable" things in SP mode as bonuses for SP players. Incentive for them to press ahead. Easter eggs, as it were. If you want something special, at least work for it, man.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 09:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

Why should players be rewarded for something they have done in another game? If you consider MP and SP as seperate, why should those who play SP get things in their MP game that people who only play MP don't get. They both can play MP equally as hard, but one will have more options than the other.

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

Emperor
Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 13:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I see these "unlockable" things in SP mode as bonuses for SP players. Incentive for them to press ahead. Easter eggs, as it were. If you want something special, at least work for it, man.


QFT.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 13:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

How is winning in MP not working for it while winning in SP is?

duke o' york is offline duke o' york

Emperor

Oct 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 16:09
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

What, did you never have all your mates round at your house because you'd been the first to unlock all the extra Streetfighter II characters? It made 2 player much more varied, and fun.

Adagio is offline Adagio

Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
What, did you never have all your mates round at your house because you'd been the first to unlock all the extra Streetfighter II characters? It made 2 player much more varied, and fun.


I didn't hate it in fighting games because I mostly just played SP anyway. Games like Street Fighter is more a SP game than a MP game, it all depends on what the main point of the game is.
If Worms was mostly just a SP game I wouldn't have hated the option that much, but because it's just as much MP as SP I don't see why they have to do it this way


quote: originally posted by UR

I see these "unlockable" things in SP mode as bonuses for SP players. Incentive for them to press ahead. Easter eggs, as it were. If you want something special, at least work for it, man.


But why force the player to do things he doesn't like to do? I paid for the game, I want everything that is included in the game. I don't like to pay to be allowed to work
If the main reason to play the game was to play the story mode then fine, but from my point of view the main reasons to play Worms is to have fun while beating the c*** out of the other players worms and the laugh in their face

Why can a player who only plays MP not also earn these easter eggs?
I don't hate unlockables, they can sometimes make the game interesting, but at least make them unlockable several ways, like if I could unlock a certain map if I kill 100 worms by using handgranades

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
Deity
Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Sep 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 23:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well the point seems to be that in this case the SP game sucks (in your opinion) rather than unlocking being bad per se.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 06:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

Unlocking by only one method be sucky. There will always be people who like SP only. There will always be people who like MP only.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 08:17
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Originally posted by Adagio
But why force the player to do things he doesn't like to do? I paid for the game, I want everything that is included in the game.


You are not forced to do anything. As you said, these extras are just skins and stuff that are nice to have but not necessary for gamplay.

Stuff like this happens in games all the time. RPG games have different endings depending on your actions. Some have secret side quests. Others have "Easter Eggs" you can stumble upon.

quote:
Originally posted by Adagio
Why can a player who only plays MP not also earn these easter eggs?
I don't hate unlockables, they can sometimes make the game interesting, but at least make them unlockable several ways, like if I could unlock a certain map if I kill 100 worms by using handgranades


Don't ask me, it is a design decision. It's an understandable decsion IMO.

For example, in Starcraft, you don't get to see how the story unfolds if you don't play SP. It's the same thing.

Bkeela is offline Bkeela
King
Brisbane, Australia
Oct 1999
time: 15:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 16:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I don't understand why anyone would want to play multiplayer games.

duke o' york is offline duke o' york

Emperor

Oct 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 16:25
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

Oh God. Here we go again.

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
Deity
Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Sep 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 16:32
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Multiplayer games are the pinnacle of gaming.

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Multiplayer games are the point of gaming. The computer is a poor subsitute for a real opponent.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 06:00
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

Computer games are simulations. Why not take it a step further and have the personalities in the game also simulations? SP!

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 06:04
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
For example, in Starcraft, you don't get to see how the story unfolds if you don't play SP. It's the same thing.


Actually, in Starcraft, if you want to see how the story unfolds but don't want to play MP, you read a spoiler guide on the web.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 06:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Multiplayer games are the point of gaming. The computer is a poor subsitute for a real opponent.


Depending on the game genre. Certainly Chessmaster is a worthy opponent

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 06:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

It took a supercomputer to beat the best human chess player.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 06:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Most people aren't the best human chess player.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 07:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

Most computers aren't supercomputers.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 11:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

While the a competent chess program on an average computer nowadays can beat an average player, Go programs can't do the same. It appears that Starcraft (or any real time games) are simple enough that a well written AI routine can give human players serious runs for the money. Esp. considering that the computer can always click a mouse faster than any human players.

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
Deity
Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Sep 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 15:58
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Sorry but what's your evidence for that last statement? I've been involved in RTS games like WC3 seriously and I just don't see how an AI at this stage can give a top human player any trouble at all.

The only way maps are made difficult versus AI in SP is giving them resource advantages.

So what's your evidence? Just 'clicking' a mouse fast is not enough I'm afraid.

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
Deity
Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Sep 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 16:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
While the a competent chess program on an average computer nowadays can beat an average player, Go programs can't do the same. It appears that Starcraft (or any real time games) are simple enough that a well written AI routine can give human players serious runs for the money. Esp. considering that the computer can always click a mouse faster than any human players.


Btw your comments on chess are a little out too. Fritz 8 (Champion Edition) is around £40 and plays at around 2600 ELO. Only GMs are stronger, and it's been a while but (anyone who has the whole FIDE rankings can post a better figure) less than a 1000 GMs are ranked higher than 2600 on a normal machine.

Adagio is offline Adagio

Emperor

Jun 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 02-09-2005 20:15
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You are not forced to do anything. As you said, these extras are just skins and stuff that are nice to have but not necessary for gamplay.


Not really, as it also unlocks maps (maps that are better than the random generated ones), which makes gameplay better

quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Stuff like this happens in games all the time. RPG games have different endings depending on your actions. Some have secret side quests. Others have "Easter Eggs" you can stumble upon.


But RPG games are ment to be like that, that is one of the main points in RPG games, to discover the world. For a MP game you just want to beat the hell out of the other players...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 03-09-2005 06:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
Sorry but what's your evidence for that last statement? I've been involved in RTS games like WC3 seriously and I just don't see how an AI at this stage can give a top human player any trouble at all.


Because they don't have AI at all in any of the Blizzard games. Just scripts and stuff through and through in the SP games.

quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
So what's your evidence? Just 'clicking' a mouse fast is not enough I'm afraid.


Elementary, my dear Watson. It's a simple observation of the complexity of the rules vs the capability of the computer, plus the knowledge of what a competent AI could do.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 03-09-2005 06:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
Btw your comments on chess are a little out too. Fritz 8 (Champion Edition) is around £40 and plays at around 2600 ELO.


Well, I take ratings of computer chess programs with a grain of salt, unless it has been tested vigorously.

 
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37.
Apolyton Time is 00:37.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0624 seconds (92.31% PHP - 7.69% MySQL) with 33 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net