31-08-2005 21:56									#31
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Who cares about Creative anyway? They are going down the tubes.

	31-08-2005 22:07									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Because consumers like choice.

Consumers like the illusion of choice.

	31-08-2005 22:09									#33
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No, consumers like choice. They don't like the choice to be illusory. Do to the nature of illusion, though, they can't always tell the difference.

	31-08-2005 22:32									#34
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That amounts to the same thing.

	31-08-2005 22:34									#35
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No it doesn't.

	31-08-2005 23:44									#36
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Oh, another Creative MP3 player question now we're at it. The system requirements they mention are always Windows something or other. Is that just for the software, or do they not even work as simple USB mass storage devices on Macs either? I'd need to be able to transfer data between Windows and Mac (not Just OS X) computers. Or would only the iPod work for that?

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Is it 98 or 98se. win98 doesnt support usb but you can download usb support for 98se.

Yes it does. Win95 doesn't support USB. Win98 supports it just fine. I'm using Win98 (not SE) right now and my USB memory stick, USB webcam, USB wireless mouse and digicam with USB connection cord work fine the last time I checked.

The difference is that Win98/98se/me need drivers for USB mass storage devices to work, while on 2000/XP you don't need drivers anymore... What does happen is that the oldest drivers manufacturers provide are for Win98se. You can sometimes find "unofficial" drivers for those too, though.

	31-08-2005 23:58									#37
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quote: For example, when a person selects the name of an artist, the player then displays a list of albums for that artist. Selecting the album name then brings up a list of the album's tracks.

what kind of idiot gave them a patent for that? doesnt he use windows?

hold on! a person on apolyton selects the name of a forum and the browser then displays a list of threads for that forum. the selecting the thread name brings up a list of the thread's posts, which you can read to it instantly (without hitting a play button)

where's my lawyer, i'm on my way to my next patent and an amazing amount of wealth (ok, ok, dan too )

	01-09-2005 00:12									#38
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quote: what kind of idiot gave them a patent for that? doesnt he use windows?

Is windows a portable music playback device, or does it run on them?

	01-09-2005 00:20									#39
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If it's on a laptop, it is!

	01-09-2005 00:27									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: what kind of idiot gave them a patent for that? doesnt he use windows? Is windows a protable music playback device, or does it run on them?

if he was a windows user he would see a very oftenly used program that displays hierchichal information on the contents of disk drives and other media....

	01-09-2005 00:30									#41
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Did you read my post?

	01-09-2005 00:35									#42
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and this doesnt seem to be hold any water if it gets to the courts

posted as a comment on news.com

quote: As a person who had navigated the patent system for some time, I believe the crucial lines in the story are, "Creative applied for the patent--which it has dubbed the "Zen Patent," named for its Zen music player--on Jan. 5, 2001." and "Creative first started using the interface in its Nomad Jukebox MP3 player, which began shipping in September 2000, according to the press release." As I understand it a patent can't be valid if you are already selling a device which incorporates the supposed invention before the patent application is filed. You can't sell it and then patent it. You have to file for the patent then offer it for sale. (However, you can publicly discuss [not sell] an item based upon the invention for up to one year before you file for the patent.) Patent examiners are so inundated at this time they often rely on what they are told by the patent applicant. If Creative did not explain to the patent examiner that they had already been selling a device which incorporates the invention they are attempting to patent then the examiner might have OK'd the patent and it got issued. The only way patents like these are then thrown out is through the courts (some judge applying patent law and declaring the patent invalid by law) or someone going to the USPTO and explicitly showing that the patent was improperly issued. More often the former happens than the latter. With so many using this "invention" in their portable systems someone will most certainly get this declared invalid.

	01-09-2005 00:38									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Did you read my post?

i thought you didnt get my windows reference

anyway, whether or not a new interface is used on a pc or a portable music device (which can describe a laptop or a windows-based phone or windows-based handheld) is/should be irrelevant....

	01-09-2005 00:41									#44
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It's what the patent specifies, Markos.

	01-09-2005 00:46									#45
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so can i have a patent for the same interface for wearable music device?

	01-09-2005 00:46									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator Yes it does. Win95 doesn't support USB. Win98 supports it just fine. I'm using Win98 (not SE) right now and my USB memory stick, USB webcam, USB wireless mouse and digicam with USB connection cord work fine the last time I checked. The difference is that Win98/98se/me need drivers for USB mass storage devices to work, while on 2000/XP you don't need drivers anymore... What does happen is that the oldest drivers manufacturers provide are for Win98se. You can sometimes find "unofficial" drivers for those too, though.

Win98 did not support usb. MSFT did not provide that until 98se (as a seperate download) and then included it with ME (as one of the selling points for upgrade). If you're running usb on win98 it's via some other software and not via the OS.

	02-09-2005 02:39									#47
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Win98 did not support usb. MSFT did not provide that until 98se (as a seperate download) and then included it with ME (as one of the selling points for upgrade). If you're running usb on win98 it's via some other software and not via the OS.

No.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/usbwin98.mspx
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q258773/
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/253756/EN-US/
http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/.../004Apr/USB.asp

In short, they first added (some?) USB support in Windows 95 OSR2.1.

	02-09-2005 07:16									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator Oh, another Creative MP3 player question now we're at it. The system requirements they mention are always Windows something or other. Is that just for the software, or do they not even work as simple USB mass storage devices on Macs either? I'd need to be able to transfer data between Windows and Mac (not Just OS X) computers. Or would only the iPod work for that? Yes it does. Win95 doesn't support USB. Win98 supports it just fine. I'm using Win98 (not SE) right now and my USB memory stick, USB webcam, USB wireless mouse and digicam with USB connection cord work fine the last time I checked. The difference is that Win98/98se/me need drivers for USB mass storage devices to work, while on 2000/XP you don't need drivers anymore... What does happen is that the oldest drivers manufacturers provide are for Win98se. You can sometimes find "unofficial" drivers for those too, though.

That's very helpful; thanks!

	03-09-2005 19:36									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator No. http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/usbwin98.mspx http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q258773/ http://support.microsoft.com/kb/253756/EN-US/ http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/.../004Apr/USB.asp In short, they first added (some?) USB support in Windows 95 OSR2.1.

You are correct.

I was mixing up win98se with win95 OSR2 that had the first downloadable "USB Supplement" (NTKern) that could be installed on top of the OS. The supplement was available on the 2.1 disc but did not automatically install. I was so sure I was right cos I remembered downloading and installing the supplement when it became available. I just lost track of time, something that happens in the elderly.

	03-09-2005 21:14									#50
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Creative has launched a patent violation suit against Apple. I have nothing against Creative, but they are going to crash and burn.

Fun.

	03-09-2005 22:20									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Creative has launched a patent violation suit against Apple. I have nothing against Creative, but they are going to crash and burn. Fun.

They are crashing and burning. Apple is raping everyone in the portable player market. Still....

	03-09-2005 22:48									#52
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These patents are really silly.
A laptop can run this kind of music and through the web you could do exactly what's claimed in the patent. Adapting it to a dumbed-down computer (call it an iPod) is evident to anyone skilled in the art.

quote: Even if the subject matter sought to be patented is not exactly shown by the prior art, and involves one or more differences over the most nearly similar thing already known, a patent may still be refused if the differences would be obvious. The subject matter sought to be patented must be sufficiently different from what has been used or described before that it may be said to be nonobvious to a person having ordinary skill in the area of technology related to the invention. For example, the substitution of one color for another, or changes in size, are ordinarily not patentable.

And we keep getting silly patents like that. Prior art files (directories) and computers show such a thing existed. Adapting it from a computer to a handheld device is trivial since you'll use the same tools (programming languages, maybe even the underlying OS). Blast those silly user interface patents!

	03-09-2005 23:06									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So you are basically saying this article is a bunch of hot air meaning little.

Or in otherwords, a troll.

	03-09-2005 23:56									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon They are crashing and burning. Apple is raping everyone in the portable player market. Still....

Doesn't Apple have a 2% marketshare in Japan in mp3 players or something? Similar in most Asian countries, it's flopping hardcore over there.

	04-09-2005 02:51									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Doesn't Apple have a 2% marketshare in Japan in mp3 players or something? Similar in most Asian countries, it's flopping hardcore over there.

Not sure what the market share is, although iTunes Japan sold a million songs in something like 3 or 4 days. Not sure how indicative that is of the iPod's market share, or the inferiority of other music services.

	04-09-2005 02:59									#56
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I heard that iPods were selling like hotcakes in Japan

	04-09-2005 03:06									#57
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo I heard that iPods were selling like hotcakes in Japan

Apparently Apple has 36% marketshare in Japan, I was thinking of another asian country...pretty sure it's South Korea.

	04-09-2005 12:42									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Doesn't Apple have a 2% marketshare in Japan in mp3 players or something?

quote: Originally posted by Asher Apparently Apple has 36% marketshare in Japan

self-correcting