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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 06:56 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Creative awarded patent for MP3 player interface, one that the iPod uses Enter the AD-FREE zone

Another patent that Apple may be liable to giving money to its competition for.

http://news.com.com/Creative+wins+p...472.html?tag=nl

quote:
Creative wins patent for MP3 player interface
Published: August 30, 2005, 7:05 AM PDT
Last modified: August 30, 2005, 2:21 PM PDT
By Anne Broache
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

update Creative Technology said Tuesday it has been awarded a patent for a user interface found in its portable media players and in competing devices, such as Apple Computer's iPod.

The digital entertainment company said that on Aug. 9 it received U.S. Patent No. 6,928,433, described as "automatic hierarchical categorization of music by metadata." Creative applied for the patent--which it has dubbed the "Zen Patent," named for its Zen music player--on Jan. 5, 2001.

But in a conference call with reporters, Craig McHugh, president of Creative Technology subsidiary Creative Labs, declined to specify what precisely will happen next. Litigation and licensing of the patent to other companies are among the "alternatives" that the company is exploring, he said.

"We're very open to talking to those companies interested in using our user interface and currently using our user interface in their products," McHugh said, declining to comment on whether private discussions are already under way with Apple or other makers of digital music players.

"We're not focused on a legal issue," McHugh went on. "We're focusing really on the celebration of getting this patent."

According to a Creative press release, the interface "enables selection of at least one track in a portable media player as a user sequentially navigates through a hierarchy using three or more successive screens on the display of the player." For example, when a person selects the name of an artist, the player then displays a list of albums for that artist. Selecting the album name then brings up a list of the album's tracks.

Creative first started using the interface in its Nomad Jukebox MP3 player, which began shipping in September 2000, according to the press release. Apple did not announce its iPod until more than a year later.

McHugh said the company had not yet evaluated "all the other players on the market" to determine whether they incorporate the user interface described in the patent.

Apple filed for a patent on a "user interface in a multimedia player" in late 2002 but, according to Creative's press release, that application was recently rejected.

In rejecting the patent, examiners cited a similar claim in a pending application by a Microsoft employee.

Apple did not respond to requests for comment Tuesday.

Hoping to cut into Apple's market share, Creative recently released a new version of its Zen player that boasts a color screen and a built-in FM radio player. Further, the Zen player, unlike its iPod rival, can play video.

Additionally, several months ago Creative dropped prices on its digital music players.

Creative declined to take questions from reporters until later Tuesday. The company has a press conference scheduled for 2 p.m. EST.


Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 06:58
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Two words: prior art.

Asher is offline Asher
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  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:01 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Which examples?

Verto is offline Verto

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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:03
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So they are getting a patent for using an interface that has been used on computers for ages?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:05
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quote:
According to a Creative press release, the interface "enables selection of at least one track in a portable media player as a user sequentially navigates through a hierarchy using three or more successive screens on the display of the player." For example, when a person selects the name of an artist, the player then displays a list of albums for that artist. Selecting the album name then brings up a list of the album's tracks.


WTF? How is that patent-able? Dude, that's messed up.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:07 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
So they are getting a patent for using an interface that has been used on computers for ages?

They got the patent.

I wasn't aware computers were "portable music playback device".

Asher is offline Asher
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time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:12 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
According to a Creative press release, the interface "enables selection of at least one track in a portable media player as a user sequentially navigates through a hierarchy using three or more successive screens on the display of the player." For example, when a person selects the name of an artist, the player then displays a list of albums for that artist. Selecting the album name then brings up a list of the album's tracks.


WTF? How is that patent-able? Dude, that's messed up.


It's the same patent process that allowed Apple to patent using an icon to represent a harddrive, dragging and dropping, and sliders, checkboxes, pull-downs, and radio buttons.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:14 Visit Asher's homepage!
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So at what point do we stop the nonsense of how Zens are "clones" of iPods? (Aggie?)

The fundamental interface mechanism in the iPod seems to be lifted from the Nomads.

Verto is offline Verto

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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:16
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At least the bullshit is uniform.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:21
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Hey, Asher, can I ask you a Creative player question?

We have three computers at home. My wife's and daughter's, both running Windows XP, have no problem recognizing a Creative MP3 player as an external drive; but my laptop, running Windows 98, treats it as a piece of hardware and looks (unsuccessfully) for drivers to make it work. Any idea what's up with that?

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:23 Visit Asher's homepage!
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I think you need some special drivers for Windows 98 USB mass storage. Actually, I don't think Win98 supports that.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I think you need some special drivers for Windows 98 USB mass storage. Actually, I don't think Win98 supports that.


That's what I was afraid of. Thanks for the speedy response!

ixnay is offline ixnay
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Jan 1970
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:39 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Creative applied for the patent--which it has dubbed the "Zen Patent," named for its Zen music player--on Jan. 5, 2001.


Didn't Apple announce the iPod in October 01?

edit: Whoops, yeah, helps if I read the whole article

Verto is offline Verto

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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

They got the patent.

I wasn't aware computers were "portable music playback device".


Not all computers are portable music playback devices, but all portable music playback devices are computers.

Say THAT three times in a row.

Asher is offline Asher
King
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Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:46 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
Not all computers are portable music playback devices, but all portable music playback devices are computers.


Yes but that has nothing to do with a patent specifically for portable music playback devices, which are a subset of "computers".

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 07:50
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I'm just here for the +1s.

oh. ****.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's the same patent process that allowed Apple to patent using an icon to represent a harddrive, dragging and dropping, and sliders, checkboxes, pull-downs, and radio buttons.


How does Windows have those features then? Do they have to pay Apple for the right?

Btw, that's ****ed up too.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:04 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
How does Windows have those features then? Do they have to pay Apple for the right?

Btw, that's ****ed up too.


Because Apple knows if they ever try to force licensing fees for it they'll be rejected.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Because Apple knows if they ever try to force licensing fees for it they'll be rejected.


So if they have a patent, why not sue on it.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:08 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So if they have a patent, why not sue on it.


Most of these patents are "defensive patents", to make sure some tiny company (or competitor) doesn't get a patent on it and use it to screw you for money.

Companies like Microsoft and IBM lobby for patent reform against such stupid patents, but in the meantime they will continue to patent such "stupid" things only because the companies tend to be on the receiving end of patent wars from tiny companies hoping to make an easy buck.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
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time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:11
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So what you are saying is that Creative isn't really going sue, even though they say they might?

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:21 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So what you are saying is that Creative isn't really going sue, even though they say they might?


No, they won't sue. But if they ever release a product with, say, a circular control like what's on the iPod and Apple sues them, you can expert a flurry of countersuits from Creative and its allies (like MS).

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:23
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So you are basically saying this article is a bunch of hot air meaning little.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Jul 2005
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:52 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Two words: prior art.


Better words: Broad patent cross-licensing between Creative and Apple that keeps both happy, but screws the little guys and start-ups.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 08:53
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Is this the same Creative that was shipping players with a virus installed?

Asher is offline Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 09:03 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Is this the same Creative that was shipping players with a virus installed?

No, that was Japanese software CD for a couple thousand Japanese market players.

That's smalltime stuff compared to the hundreds of thousands of faulty products Apple's been found liable of shipping.

nostromo is offline nostromo
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Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 10:43
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Say hello to the 20 GB Creative Sleek



http://www.creative.com/products/pr...4&product=13599

If those buttons are clickable, its an improvement over the Zen Micro, IMO.

Why the hell do they have so many models? They already have the 20 GB Zen, not to be confused with the Zen Micro.

In other news, Samsung is slashing prices on 4GB Flash memory modules. AFAIK, these price cuts are for Apple only.

quote:
In what is one of the more encouraging signs sign yet that Apple is planning a flash-based version of the iPod mini, Tom’s Hardware reports that Samsung, which already supplies the flash memory modules used in the iPod shuffle, has offered to cut the price of its 4GB flash memory module by roughly 50% in order to make it competitive with the 4GB Microdrives that Apple currently uses in the 4GB iPod mini. That’d severely undercut every other supplier’s pricing and make it possible for Apple to offer a smaller, lighter 4GB iPod mini without a mini hard drive. That also means an iPod mini with no moving parts that could be damaged during exercise.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:02 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by nostromo
Say hello to the 20 GB Creative Sleek



http://www.creative.com/products/pr...4&product=13599

If those buttons are clickable, its an improvement over the Zen Micro, IMO.

Why the hell do they have so many models? They already have the 20 GB Zen, not to be confused with the Zen Micro.


Because consumers like choice.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:08
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The Zen Sleek does look very nice. I agree with nostromo on the clickable buttons.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Feb 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 31-08-2005 20:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Hey, Asher, can I ask you a Creative player question?

We have three computers at home. My wife's and daughter's, both running Windows XP, have no problem recognizing a Creative MP3 player as an external drive; but my laptop, running Windows 98, treats it as a piece of hardware and looks (unsuccessfully) for drivers to make it work. Any idea what's up with that?


Is it 98 or 98se. win98 doesnt support usb but you can download usb support for 98se.

 
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