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Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:29
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quote:
Originally posted by C0ckney
635 people would disagree with you.
yeah but most of them were women and children...

men would survive

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:33
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Sava,

quote:
He said he could not rule out the possibility that some victims had been poisoned by cyanide, but was waiting for forensic evidence.


??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/4199618.stm

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:34
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I think children are more likely to survive the jump than grown men, due to their smaller mass.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:37
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
I think children are more likely to survive the jump than grown men, due to their smaller mass.
uhmmm children usually can't swim

re: cyanide

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:37
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Man, this is like when those catastophic earthquakes hit Iran or Turkey and you hear about 20 000 dead and such. It's surreal

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Man, this is like when those catastophic earthquakes hit Iran or Turkey and you hear about 20 000 dead and such. It's surreal
and, unfortunately, like all those other tragedies, it gets less airtime than one dead middle class white girl in Aruba

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:42
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#37 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

They're saying the number may rise to 1000.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050831/ts_nm/iraq_dc

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:45
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This seems to be the worst stampede in the century so far:

quote:
Here is a chronology of the worst stampedes in the 21st century:

March 31, 2001 - At least 36 pilgrims are killed in a stampede at a Muslim shrine in the central Pakistani province of Punjab.

April 11 - At least 43 people are crushed to death when soccer fans stampeded as they tried to force their way into a South African stadium.

May 9 - 126 people are killed in a stampede at a soccer stadium in the Ghanaian capital Accra.

Dec. 1, 2002 - At least 36 people are killed in northern Bangladesh trying to get to clothes and money given away by a rich businessman for a Muslim festival

Feb. 17, 2003 - At least 21 people are killed in a stampede at an illegal U.S. nightclub in Chicago when they try to escape pepper spray and are crushed behind blocked doors.

Aug. 27, - Stampeding pilgrims trample at least 32 people to death, many of them elderly women, at a religious gathering in the western Indian state of Maharashtra.

Feb. 1, 2004 - A stampede kills 251 Muslim pilgrims in Saudi Arabia during the ritual stoning of the devil at the annual Haj pilgrimage.

Feb 5 - A stampede at a Lunar New Year lantern display in China's capital Beijing kills 37.

April 12 - At least 21 women are killed in a stampede in the northern Indian town of Lucknow when supporters of a local politician began giving out free sarees to celebrate his birthday.

Jan. 25, 2005 - At least 257 Hindu pilgrims, including several women and children, are killed in a stampede near a remote temple in India's Maharashtra state.

Aug. 31 - At least 640 people are killed in Iraq when a crowd of Shi'ites stampede off a bridge over the Tigris river in Baghdad.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:47
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the lesson to be learned?

stay away from pilgrims

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:47
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841 already.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 19:58
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This reminds me of the stampedes in Mecca some years ago. Something is wrong when it's safer to fight frontline battles than go near a crowd of pilgrims.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 20:56
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Got spare money?

Religion
Terrorists
Rumours
Stampedes
Creating "terrorist magnet areas" in the "War against Terrorism"

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 20:58
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Remove this text

excessive thumb usage

Ted Striker

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 21:36
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You are right Ves, definitely big part of blame should go to city authorities, letting such big gatherings happen. I would also blame the local IRS for not funding enough of safe exits from the location and I'm pretty sure the fire safety regulations were also disregarded, it's disgusting this whole lacking of .. following of law and order, regulations and rules.

But what we need to understand is that these people don't live by law and rule. They live by not drinking alcohol and not checking out women.

MY suggestion. Fire the fire officer in charge of that day, fire the ones who gave permit to hold this event and then fire the people who agreed on that permit and wouldn't arrange for security staff, keeping out the people not fitting in anymore, according to fire safety regulations. Also fire the police chief, who is responsible for permits all in all. Just fire everyone. City Authority BOO BOO BOO!!

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 21:52 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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Perhaps people wouldn't have been so panicked if national security wasn't such a disgrace with a number of suicide bombs previously killing hundreds during such religious gatherings - ultimately the blame for the security situation lays firmly at the door of the US...

As for people surviving a 30m fall from a bridge into a river, I'm surprised you guys haven't yet produced an Excel Chart on the subject the way you've been prattling on about it in such a pointless manner...

Personally I'd think the obvious answer is that if you dump a few hundred tons of writhing human bodies onto each other from a great height - the ones at the bottom are going to be crushed to death before they get a chance to drown. But that's just me...

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 21:54
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quote:
Perhaps people wouldn't have been so panicked if national security wasn't such a disgrace with a number of suicide bombs previously killing hundreds during such religious gatherings - ultimately the blame for the security situation lays firmly at the door of the US...


Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 21:56
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Aren't MOBIUS' powers amazing?

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 21:59 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Aren't MOBIUS' powers amazing?


Yeah, it's called common sense - something that is woefully lacking on the Poly OT...

Would you care to refute my claim with a reasonable argument against it?

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

Donate to the Red Cross
Gotta have more cowbell!
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
I think children are more likely to survive the jump than grown men, due to their smaller mass.




You can't be serious.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:00
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hell, I blame Eisenhower.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer


You can't be serious.


Isn't the state of science education wonderful?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer




You can't be serious.


I've missed this gem.



.
.
.
.
.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

Donate to the Red Cross
Gotta have more cowbell!
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:15
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#53 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

In retrospect, that would have been a better smiley to use.

Az

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:21 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Ouch. Survivable though, I think.


No. A fall from any height over 20 meters on something hard is almost always fatal. Water is not soft at that speed.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:23
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No no no no no. YOUR smiley is the better.

Actually, it's possible that he's right. if we postulate spherical babies, equal density of babies and adults, and equal suseptability to damage of babies and adults per unit of mass, since IIRC air drag is proportional to the square of the radius, and mass, and thus gravitational force is proportional to the cube of the radius of the baby/adult, the babies will hit the water with a slightly lower speed.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:25
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life



But still, he said due to their smaller mass.

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:26
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Ignoramuses

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:28 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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You're the one clinging to Aristotilian physics.

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:28
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Let's start with STRAIGHT DOPE:

quote:
Scientists have long been fascinated by what happens to people who fall from great heights without a parachute. Unsurprisingly, most of them get killed; perhaps surprisingly, a few don't. A prime example of the latter was a 17-year-old male who in 1979 leaped off the Golden Gate Bridge from a height of 250 feet. According to one report, "he recount[ed] a slowing of time initially, and mid-fall, when fully realizing the oncoming impact, strove to adjust his attitude to the vertical feet-first position. An almost perfect entry was achieved. Although dazed, he swam to shore" and checked into a hospital, where his worst injury turned out to be several cracked vertebrae.

Walking away from something like that is rare. The Golden Gate Bridge is said to be the most popular suicide location in the world--at least 1,200 people had jumped as of 2003, of whom fewer than 20 survived. A more typical outcome was that of a stuntman calling himself Kid Courage, who jumped off the bridge in 1980 trying to set a free-fall record. He landed flat on his back and was dead when pulled from the water with massive internal injuries.

The key to survival appears to be vertical entry. Your little brain is right, Paul--there's a difference between landing on water and landing on concrete, namely you can't dive into concrete. The 17-year-old male survivor said he may have touched bottom, perhaps 20 to 25 feet down--plenty of room to disperse the force of impact. In contrast, Kid Courage's body never sank beneath the surface, meaning he'd gone from 75 mph (a Golden Gate leaper's peak speed) to zero in maybe six inches.

Beyond a certain point even Olympic form won't save you. One expert claims the upper limit for surviving water entry is around 80 mph. Presumably it's less if you're hitting something solid. Still, the literature teems with spectacular exceptions:
In a 1942 paper, physiologist Hugh De Haven told of eight people who survived falls of 50 to 150 feet on dry land, many with only minor injuries. The common denominator: something to break the fall or soften the impact, such as loose dirt, the hood of a car, or, in one astonishing but verified case, an iron bar, metal screens, a skylight, and a metal-lath ceiling.
In 1963, U.S. Marine pilot Cliff Judkins's chute didn't open after he bailed out of his crippled fighter. He fell 15,000 feet into the Pacific, suffered numerous broken bones and a collapsed lung, but lived.
U.S. Army air force sergeant Alan Magee fell 20,000 feet from an exploding B-17 in 1943 and crashed through the skylight of a French train station. (A lesson emerges: Aim for the skylight.) Though his arm was shattered, he lived too.
When his bomber was shot down in 1942, Soviet lieutenant I.M. Chisov fell 22,000 feet into a snowy ravine. He was badly injured but recovered.
Luckiest of all was RAF flight sergeant Nicholas Alkemade, who leaped from his burning bomber in 1944 without a parachute at 18,000 feet. After a 90-second plunge, he crashed through tree branches in a pine forest and landed in 18 inches of snow. His only injuries: scratches, bruises, burns, and, in some accounts, a twisted knee.

--CECIL ADAMS


http://www.straightdope.com/columns/050311.html

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 31-08-2005 22:30
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Nothing about mass there. And surviving from those thousands of feet isn't really that surprising, given terminal velocity.

 
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