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Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 19:17
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quote:
Hurricane News in Brief

Farrakhan: God punishing U.S. for Iraq with storm

• Speaking to a large crowd in South Philadelphia last night, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan suggested that the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina was divine punishment for the violence America had inflicted on Iraq.

"New Orleans is the first of the cities going to tumble down... unless America changes its course," Farrakhan said.

"It is the wickedness of the people of America and the government of America that is bringing the wrath of God down," he told several hundred people at Tinsley Temple United Methodist Church.

His remarks were enthusiastically received.

He was in town as part of a multicity tour designed to drum up support for an Oct. 15 event in Washington designed to build on and commemorate the 10th anniversary of the Million Man March he organized in 1995. The new effort is called the Millions More Movement.

Farrakhan made similar remarks at a luncheon hosted by District 33 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which represents blue-collar city workers.

"The justice of God is coming home now," he said in an hour-long speech. Among those attending were City Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell, Mayor Street's son Sharif Street, and Imam Shamsud-din Ali, the Muslim cleric convicted in the City Hall corruption probe.- Frederick Cusick
and Michael Currie Schaffer
link: http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/ne...on/12530586.htm

I really hate Farrakhan.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 19:23
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Tired of ads?

With God on our side.

There's something deeply depressing about the way a natural disaster makes the woodwork squeak and out come the god freaks.


quote:
I'd say that divine intervention had a lot to do with saving the lives of everyone still in the city.




Yes, God saved them from a huge natural disaster. Pity about the folks who weren't saved...

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 19:33
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It could have been worse, a lot worse.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 19:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
It could have been worse, a lot worse.



Wow- clear proof of divine beneficence.


'And if you don't pray right, next time I definitely kill all the kids too!'

God as a spoiled playground bully- what a cosmic conception.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 19:39
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molly bloom

it's funny when people thank God that things weren't worse...

you know when you thank God?

When the hurricane disappears ten miles off the coast and nobody dies.

then you thank god...

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 19:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
It could have been worse, a lot worse.


Yeah, and Katrina might have suddenly swung on over to NORAD, accidentally triggered all the nukes and the world could have ended in a horrifying holocaust. But I guess the benevolent magic poobah decided to spare us all that fate and just have the storm pick on poor people.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 19:49
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God doesn't care about poor people. They don't contribute enough to the 700 Club.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 23:50
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quote:

Thank God for Katrina
New Orleans, symbol of America, seen for what it is: a putrid, toxic, stinking cesspool of fag fecal matter.

"Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupt; they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more; the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it, but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores; they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment." Isaiah 1:4-6.
America is irreversibly doomed. It is a sin to pray for the good of this evil fag nation.

"Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear thee." Jeremiah 7:16.
It is a sin NOT to rejoice when God executes His wrath and vengeance upon America.

"The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance; he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous; verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth." Psalm 58:10,11.
Pray for more dead bodies floating on the fag-semen-rancid waters of New Orleans.
Pray for more American bodies blown to smithereens by cheap home made Iraqi IEDs - like the IED America bombed WBC with August 20, 1995, hoping thereby to terrorize us into silence about America's fag sins.

"And I myself will fight against you with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and in fury, and in great wrath. And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast; they shall die of a great pestilence." Jeremiah 21:5,6.
America became WBC's terrorist. So, God, in retaliation, became America's Terrorist.
link: http://www.godhatesfags.com/feature...or-katrina.html

We all knew this was coming.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 02-09-2005 23:53 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Fred Phelps

Saying things that need to be said*, since $_DATE.

And by "need to be said", I mean, " fcukheads say". cf. 9/11.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 00:02
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Let's see how long it takes for this thing to calm down enough to have idiots parading around this.

I got so pissed off few hours ago when I was hanging out with my buddy, talking about this whole thing and he was like 'well this is a good snap for the Americans'. Then I was like 'what do you mean?' .. 'well, now they know what it's likei in Africa'.

I expected it to be about the war in Iraq or something but no, now they know what it's like in Africa and it's good lesson. WTF? The message was so weird in so many levels I was totally out of words, and I knew I should keep my mouth shut because nothing good could ever come from it.

Just so wrong in so many levels. THat would be same if thousands of people in here died from natural disaster, and someone would say, well good now the Finns know what it's like in Africa. Makes about the same amount of sense, or even more since Europe has ****ed over Africa more than anyone else can ever do in a long time to come.

But, he is one of those people who go for fads in political ideologies. He is one of the people who really did vote for green party member, who he didn't even know, just because he was in green party and green party stands for protecting the environment. THat was all that he needed. Their slogan was enough. I mean how ****ing stupid can you really be? Why lend a brain when you can use your own...

What I mean by this is that he is driven over by the cool hip new age leftists crap that has plagued our good country. I know for a fact that he hasn't read a single book about any subject of political or world or history or anything to this matter, or doesn't know who Chomsky is or any other intellectual, or free thinker or even leftist big names and ... folks. Girls with big boobs said they like green party and leftist movement, so does he then. Because it stands for something out of the mainstream. Except it IS the mainstream now. It stands for everything good, fight the evil power, save the environment and bring justice and peace. .. and snap back at the Americans! A lesson well deserved! How ****ed up do yo uhave to really be to think that it's cool that thousands of innocnt people has died as immidiate result, so 'they now know what it's like in Africa'? ****, he hasn't been to Africa either so he don't know.

He's one of the people who would give trillion bucks to the first warlord and go to sleep and feel good about it, being the carrie of the torch of light and good in the world of darkness. ****ed up!

Road to hell is paved with good intentions.

But no matter, he is my buddy. Just little short sighted adn stupid sometimes. He woudl change his opinion if he learned what it's like in New Orleans. And at least he did start hesitating what he woudl say after that and took it back a bit. I won't beat him down though. I forgive him his stupidity.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 00:06
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Memo
From: God
To: Y'all
Re: Hurricane Katrina


1. Will those of you who dont like gravity, water flowing down hill, or heat imparting energy PLEASE make yourselves known. Cause as long as I keep these carefully designed laws of physics in place, this stuff is gonna happen. IF i go to the effort of changing it, you can forget about a lot of other stuff you like

2. For the hundredth time, I told you that the earth is under YOUR stewardship. Stewardship DOES NOT include destroying wetlands, overheating the atmosphere, or improperly storing toxic chemicals.

3. Im glad you invented skiing, but you do so at your own risk. Similarly, you build cities below sea level at your own risk.

4. Not leaving when you can. I mean that joke is so old, im not even gonna repeat it.

5. And as for those who couldnt leave, or didnt know cause of their social status - please see again all the items about caring for the poor, and justice in the city. Please.

6. As for not having emergency plans in place - well, you know the old one about trusting in God, but look both ways when crossing the street?

7. Yet again, this is NOT about any particular group of sinners. I destroy cities for injustice - not for the sins of minorities. You guys keep misreading that Sodom story.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 00:06 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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True Muslims, not just NOI adherents, are also saying the same thing:
http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD97705

l'es Wrath of l'es tres God, or something.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 07:06
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It shows that religious types are easier to become batty.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Memo
From: God
To: Y'all
Re: Hurricane Katrina


1. Will those of you who dont like gravity, water flowing down hill, or heat imparting energy PLEASE make yourselves known. Cause as long as I keep these carefully designed laws of physics in place, this stuff is gonna happen. IF i go to the effort of changing it, you can forget about a lot of other stuff you like

2. For the hundredth time, I told you that the earth is under YOUR stewardship. Stewardship DOES NOT include destroying wetlands, overheating the atmosphere, or improperly storing toxic chemicals.

3. Im glad you invented skiing, but you do so at your own risk. Similarly, you build cities below sea level at your own risk.

4. Not leaving when you can. I mean that joke is so old, im not even gonna repeat it.

5. And as for those who couldnt leave, or didnt know cause of their social status - please see again all the items about caring for the poor, and justice in the city. Please.

6. As for not having emergency plans in place - well, you know the old one about trusting in God, but look both ways when crossing the street?

7. Yet again, this is NOT about any particular group of sinners. I destroy cities for injustice - not for the sins of minorities. You guys keep misreading that Sodom story.



molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 16:46
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And God Saw What He Had Wrought, And Saith:

LO !! I SAY UNTO YOU, WALK IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, OR THE KITTEN GETS IT !!!!!

Attachment: godsays.jpg
This has been downloaded 25 time(s).

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 19:42
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quote:
A note to our conservative friends:

WE TOLD YOU SO

Ever wonder why New Yorkers detest George Bush?

Because we experienced his incompetence up close and person. We knew this guy was full of ****, absolutely full of ****ing ****, after they started to play games with the funding and gave Wyoming terrorism money. We knew he was an assclown then.

We thought DC 9/11 was a comedy, because the Bush we saw hid in AF One like the scared ***** that he is.

But did you listen?

**** no. Until last week, Ann Coulter was calling New Yorkers cowards for not endorsing Bush's folly in Iraq.

We have been screaming for two years that Bush and his team sucked. That they had no clue. They sent soldiers to be wounded in Iraq without armored anything. And you idiots cheered him on from the safety of your keyboards. We told you he was ****ing up Iraq. But no, we supported Saddam, we were racist, we blamed America.

You say this isn't about politics? **** you, this IS politics, real time, real life politics, where the insanity of all your ideas are exposed to the world for the fraud that they are. Tax cuts kill. Ask the relatives of the dead of the Gulf Coast.

Well, mother****ers, the alligators are feasting on dead nigger and there isn't an Iraqi in sight. And Bush is trying to gladhand his way through a mess which has stunned FOX reporters. I mean, Shepard Smith is calling Fox's talking heads liars ON THE AIR.

CNN rips Bush in print and online after nearly five years of sleep.

Instead of hearing what we had to say about Bush, you called John Kerry a coward, mocked Max Cleland, blamed everything but herpes on Bill Clinton. You enabled Bush into this mess and now you're shocked?

Now, Fox can be outraged, now, Wash Times and Union Leader call Bush weak? Well, his coward ass disappeared in 2001. But you rather blame Michael Moore for that.

He can't even explain the Iraq war to a grieving mother.

So what did you do?

Write the most vile things about her and her dead son. Attacked her patriotism and her honesty.

Well, mother****ers, and that means you, fat ass Goldberg and your master, Rich Lowry, PNAC ***** Beinart, the racist wannabe white Malkin and the little ****tards at LGF, Bareback Andy and "Diversity" Instacracker, all you backstabbing, fag hating uncle tom ministers, you can see Dear Leader in action. America's largest port is gone, maybe forever, gas is $5+ a gallon and FEMA is coming. Whores come faster with old men than FEMA is getting to NOLA.

How did your wartime President react? Like Chiang Kai-Shek when the Yellow River flooded in 1944, with corrupt indifference.

Bush, the man your fever dreams built into the next Winston Churchill when he is really the live action Chauncey Gardiner, has failed to everyone, in plain sight, without question. Rick Perry is trying to save his ass, but it ain't working. NOLA looks like ANGOLA and that ain't flying.

Say 9/11 changed everything now, mother****ers. Ooops, 9/11, 9/11. 9/11. Doesn't work anymore? Gee, maybe the sea of alligator MRE's once known as the citizens of New Orleans has something to do with that. Now you can shut the **** up about 9/11. Bush just proved what would happen with another 9/11. Dead Americans as far as the nose can smell.

Drunken Chris Hitchens muttered some nonsense about blacks having it so good here. The poor man needs to stay in his bottle or go to Betty Ford before someone beats his treasonous ass stupid. Islamofascism means what, now mother****er? Shove Islamofascism up your well travelled ass. The most dangerous thing to average Americans is not some mullah in Iraq, not even Osama Bin Laden, but George Bush. If he doesn't get you killed in Iraq, he'll **** up saving your city so it turns into Escape from New Orleans. Armed junkies roaming the streets, looking for a fix, robbing and looting like Serb paramilitaries and about as sober.

George Bush's ineptitude has killed far more Americans than Osama could have dreamed of.

Some of you still try to see the clothes on the Dauphin, but he's as naked as Peter North around Jenna Jameson. Bush ****ed up so bad, FOX turned on him like a rabid dog.

You can't hide behind racism forever. Bush ****ed up, Bush is a weak, callous leader and the world knows this like it knows few other things. And all the stolen TV's in the world cannot hide that.


http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2...old-you-so.html



Many thanks to Kos from bringing this wonderful piece of commentary to my attention.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 20:55
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I don't know if you are being sarcastic Drake... but that is a wonderful piece of commentary.

He's spot on.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Gotta have more cowbell!
Mar 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 03-09-2005 22:25
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It's not a good way to convince people of your argument, however valid, to consistently use profanities and ad hominems.

However, pertaining the point about the media uprising (and how awful that it took something like this for it to happen), here's a relevant article from Slate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2125581/?nav=tap3

quote:
The Rebellion of the Talking Heads
Newscasters, sick of official lies and stonewalling, finally start snarling.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Friday, Sept. 2, 2005, at 2:36 PM PT



Anderson Cooper: no more Mr. Nice Guy


A former deputy chief of FEMA told Knight Ridder Newspapers yesterday (Sept. 1) that there "are two kinds of levees—the ones that breached and the ones that will be breached." A similar aphorism applies to broadcasters: They come in two varieties, the ones that have gone stark, raving mad on air and the ones who will.

In the last couple of days, many of the broadcasters reporting from the bowl-shaped toxic waste dump that was once the city of New Orleans have stopped playing the role of wind-swept wet men facing down a big storm to become public advocates for the poor, the displaced, the starving, the dying, and the dead.

Last night, CNN's Anderson Cooper abandoned the old persona to throttle Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., in a live interview. (See the video or read the transcript.)

"Does the federal government bear responsibility for what is happening now? Should they apologize for what is happening now?" Cooper opened.

As if campaigning before the local Democratic Ladies' Club lunch, Landrieu sing-songed back, "Anderson, there will be plenty of time to discuss all of those issues, about why, and how, and what, and if." She went on to thank President Bush, President Clinton, former President Bush, Senators Frist and Reid, and "all leaders that are coming to Louisiana, and Mississippi, and Alabama, "for their help.

Her condescending filibuster continued: "Anderson, tonight, I don't know if you've heard—maybe you all have announced it—but Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA and the Red Cross up and operating."

Cooper suspended the traditional TV rules of decorum and, approaching tears of fury, said:

Excuse me, Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that, because, for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset, and very angry, and very frustrated.

And when they hear politicians slap—you know, thanking one another, it just, you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now, because literally there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours. And there's not enough facilities to take her up.



Do you get the anger that is out here? …

I mean, I know you say there's a time and a place for, kind of, you know, looking back, but this seems to be the time and the place. I mean, there are people who want answers, and there are people who want someone to stand up and say, "You know what? We should have done more. Are all the assets being brought to bear?"

Landrieu kept her cool, probably because she's in Baton Rouge, while the stink of corpses caused Cooper to tremble in rage all the way to the commercial break.

Yesterday, on NPR's All Things Considered, Robert Siegel didn't get medieval on Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, in part because the microphones there are specially fabricated to decant all emotion from the voices of their reporters. But Siegel aggressively blocked every escape route that Chertoff took to evade hard questions about "corpses" and "human waste" piling up at the city's convention center, where thousands were stranded without provisions. (Siegel gets tough at about minute four in the audio clip.)

Siegel kept asking Chertoff how long it would take to serve or rescue these people, and a couple times Chertoff answered that the government was doing a great job at the Superdome.

When he cautioned Siegel about the danger of relying on "anecdotal" "rumors" of people in dire straits, Siegel said, no—these are facts presented by reporters who have covered war zones. There are 2,000 people at the convention center in need, he said. Having finally broken through the steel plate that is Chertoff's skull, the secretary confessed he hadn't heard those reports—reports that the television networks were documenting, live, with their cameras. Chertoff promised he'd look into the matter.

Several readers directed me to CNN reporter Miles O'Brien's hard-boiled interview with Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour in which he repeatedly invited the governor to agree with him that the federal government had "dropped the ball." When Barbour demurred on this and other points of culpability, O'Brien came back at him without the politesse reporters usually extend to dissembling pols.

I recall Andrea Mitchell all but editorializing on NBC the other night about Congress taking its sweet time to reconvene and pass a hurricane-relief bill … Fox News Channel's Shepard Smith chasing after a mute police officer down the New Orleans freeway overpass and asking in outrage when the stranded would get help … and MSNBC's Joe Scarborough in Biloxi transforming himself into the voice of the disenfranchised to put in a good word for the looters:

You got to understand that these are people who have young babies who haven't had water in four days, in some cases, haven't had formula, haven't had basic necessities. I just wonder what you would do, what I would do if we were in a situation where our 15-month-old child or our 2-year-old baby needed something to stay alive. I don't know what you would do. I know I would do anything it took to get what they needed.

Now, I should be getting it from the federal government if I am in New Orleans, from the state government. But I will tell you what. It is amateur hour, and it has been amateur hour over the past four or five days. This is completely different, friends, from the way the crises were handled in Florida last year, four hurricanes, two of them major, it was handled with ruthless efficiency. I know. I was there. That is not happening tonight in New Orleans.

This morning the discontent spread to the anchor booth at CNN, as Wonkette notes, when Soledad O'Brien openly mocked FEMA in an interview with its director, Michael Brown:

As you can tell, the situation clearly is deteriorating. You've got armed bandits roving the streets. They're heavily armed. You've got people living out on the streets with absolutely no protection, no help whatsoever, no food, no water. How many armed National Guardsmen do you have on the ground right now? …

How is it possible that we're getting better intel than you're getting? …

FEMA has been on the ground for four days, going into the fifth day. Why no massive airdrop of food and water? In Banda Aceh, in Indonesia, they got food dropped two days after the tsunami struck. …

It's five days that FEMA has been on the ground. The head of police says it's been five days that FEMA has been there. The mayor, the former mayor, putting out SOS's on Tuesday morning, crying on national television, saying please send in some troops. So the idea that, yes, I understand that you're feeding people and trying to get in there now, but it's Friday. It's Friday. …

CNN anchor Jack Cafferty growled about the media coverage of Katrina's victims yesterday on Wolf Blitzer's The Situation Room, name-checking me and citing my Wednesday column about the broadcasters' failure to acknowledge the race and economic class of the hardest-hit.

Said Cafferty:

We knew it was coming. And yet, the poorest and the neediest and the most helpless of those in New Orleans, well, they're still there, aren't they? Despite the many angles of this tragedy—and lord knows there've been a lot of them in New Orleans—there is a great big elephant in the living room that the media seems content to ignore.

That would be until now. Slate.com's Jack Shafer wrote today in his column that television coverage has shied away from talking about race and class. Shafer says that we in the media are ignoring the fact that almost all of the victims in New Orleans are black and poor. And he's right. Almost every person we've seen, from the families stranded on their rooftops waiting to be rescued, to the looters, to the people holed up in the Superdome, are black and poor.

Many of them didn't follow the evacuation orders because they didn't have the means to get out of town. They just couldn't do it. A lot of them are sick, a lot of them don't have cars, a lot of them just didn't have the means to leave "The Big Easy." And they're still there.

This gave the Washington-based Blitzer a perfect opening to comment on race and class, but he stumbled and fell into a "Campanis moment." While airing file footage of victims trudging through hip-deep water looking for help, Blitzer, no racist, said:

You simply get chills every time you see these poor individuals, as Jack Cafferty just pointed out, so tragically, so many of these people, almost all of them that we see, are so poor and they are so black, and this is going to raise lots of questions for people who are watching this story unfold. [Emphasis added.]

(Note to Blitzer: You might be one of those guys, like Campanis, who shouldn't talk about race extemporaneously. Next time, try channeling your outrage from the pages of a well-thought-out news script.)

The rebellion of the talking heads reached its culmination today as CNN.com contrasted "the official version" of events in New Orleans with its "in-the-trenches" account by its reporters and authoritative sources. Muted compared to the on-air growling, the Web story still portrays the government as a pack of liars, or worse, as bumbling idiots. The broadcasters' angry dispatches break with the "public face" they usually give their work: polite, patient, neutral, generous. A steady diet of such confrontational reporting would probably be as edifying as a Jerry Springer show. But when the going gets this tough—when government incompetence and lies become so insurmountable—sometimes the only way to get the story is by getting mad.

******

Get this: Rush Limbaugh called me a liberal on his show yesterday for my Wednesday column about the news broadcasters' general neglect of race and class. Said Limbaugh, "The whole purpose of this story for Mr. Shafer and these stories on these lower level websites that hopefully they think will percolate to the mainstream press is to eventually indict the American way of life, to indict the American culture, to indict the American society as inherently unfair and racist." I can't wait to impress my friends at the American Prospect by sending the transcript over. Meanwhile, call me a communist, a fascist, a neo-con, an anarcho-syndicalist, or late to dinner via e-mail: slate.pressbox@gmail.com. (E-mail may be quoted unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)


Jack Shafer is Slate's editor at large.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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