04-09-2005 18:50									#31
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I don't give a damn if the tech tree is realistic or not. Surely, Hunting was discovered before 4000 BC, but as long as the Civ4 tech tree is flexible and has interesting decisions, I'm all for it.

	04-09-2005 18:59									#32
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quote: I don't give a damn if the tech tree is realistic or not.

Hunting

Prerequisites: Fusion Power, Stealth

	04-09-2005 19:14									#33
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Solver: As I wrote, I doubt this even is Civ4's tech tree. Anyway, with such starting techs, all civs will have to have some tech already researched every single time, whcih makes no sense, or Civ4 will have to begin ages earlier than it's predecessors.

EDIT: In addition to this, I think this tech tree promises few alternate possibilites or flexibility.

	04-09-2005 19:14									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Az quote: I don't give a damn if the tech tree is realistic or not. Hunting Prerequisites: Fusion Power, Stealth

Hunting for Esfahani reactors and processing plants IS a bit specialized.

	04-09-2005 20:10									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai Solver: As I wrote, I doubt this even is Civ4's tech tree.

Why wouldn't it be? I based my tree solely on screencaps and screencaps as recent as a few weeks ago confirm that it's now still more or less the same as around E3 when I first compiled it (though admittedly they don't show the earliest part of the tree). And I doubt they would be doing very major overhauls to it now.

quote: EDIT: In addition to this, I think this tech tree promises few alternate possibilites or flexibility.

The key is that the tree now consists of OR-gates, meaning that you only require one of the prerequisites to research a tech, not all. That means you can in theory get to Gunpowder in 8 steps -- if that's not flexible, I don't know what is. Of course, that would cause some balance issues so there are probably still some AND-gates left: in my tree I put suspected AND-gates in brackets below the techs, rather than as arrows (in which case it's 19 steps to Gunpowder).


Let's not forget that the starting techs were never tremendously 'realistic' to begin with. I mean, Warrior Code -- WTF is that? And Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Polytheism and Pottery all existed long before 4000 BC. Then again, there are also parts of the world in which they were only first invented/introduced long after that date.

I think the exact details of the tech tree aren't all *that* important. Of course realism would be a nice bonus, but what's realism anyway? A tech tree from 4000 BC to 2000 AD for China or the ME or the Americas would look very differently than the same tree for Europe. Every tree I've ever seen has its problems.

	04-09-2005 20:19									#36
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It might be a dumb question, but who made the tech tree of cepalui? I thought it was him, but now you talk as if you've made it?

	04-09-2005 20:28									#37
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I posted MY tech tree (well, mine... I had a lot of help from Solver and V. Soma), that I made LONG before cepalui earlier in the thread.

Here it is again: http://civilization4.net/files/info...echtree_all.png

See http://civilization4.net/3/78/126/ for more info.

	04-09-2005 20:33									#38
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Thanks. I saw the link you gave earlier, but thought it was similar because of your wording. However, your tree is much more likely, with several more techs(I never thought so few could be right). But I still don't see the "or" and "and"s anywhere in the first link, do we know anything more of that now?

	04-09-2005 20:37									#39
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Like I said, suspected AND-gates are displayed as techs between brackets (e.g. The Wheel for Pottery). We don't know for a fact if this is accurate, and probably won't for some time to come, but it's fairly likely.

	04-09-2005 20:44									#40
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Ok. BTW, from your tree I can see that without any ANDs, we can get gunpowder after only 5 techs. I suspect you're right regarding the need of some ANDs then...

	04-09-2005 22:39									#41
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Even with pure OR gates, there could be veriable costs and if they do away with min/max turns to reserach a tech, it could take quite a long time to reach gunpowder even with beeling, particularly in light that the path is bypassing the science improving techs.

	05-09-2005 08:41									#42
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I must admit . . . only needing one prerequisite sure leads to bizzare results . . . Mysticism leading to Masonry???

There are a number of glaring misspellings here. Perhaps this isn't anywhere near the "official" map as others have suggested above.

	05-09-2005 16:44									#43
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I say keep the AND gated nature of the tech tree...seems more logical to me...

	05-09-2005 19:10									#44
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I agree there are really strange things in the tree.

Sailing and (or?) Iron Working leading to the invention of the Compass very early in the tree.
O.K.

But magnetism not getting detected before the invention of electricity (and/or biology) much later within the tree????

IMHO who created the tree just made some errors in naming the topics (for example it could be electromagnetism which was detected later, the connection between electricity and magnetism)

As for OR-Gates: Well, if it sounds plausible to use them fopr certain technologies, why not. And that´s my only desire there, i.e. that the Techtree is well thought out and of course, that it is big enough
(and if not, well, I have no scruples in modifying it to suit my tastes [sounds like we have more than enough tools there to do so ] )

	05-09-2005 19:28									#45
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You might be able to get down the tech tree while researching as few as possible but wont it also be more costly to research something further down the tech tree? If you can get to something in like 5 advances it isn't doing you any good if it takes you like 60 turns to research it so early in the game.

	05-09-2005 23:35									#46
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Currently German computer magazine "PC Games" has a reportage on DVD about Civ4 (from which I borrowed those 2 screenshots).

While on the 1st one, you can hardly read anything specific (you can count the total number of techs however), #2 is much more detailed and gives you a clue about the tech interaction in the mid-game (there is a continous zoom from #1 to #2).

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=307625

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=307629

I added 1 more: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=307635

It shows details about "philosophy".

"I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law." --- Aristotle

Enables: pacifism (a civic trait I suppose)
First to discover founds: T????????? (could it be Taoism ?)
Leads to: nationalism, liberalism
Allows: ???? (can anyone identify this building ? Taoist cathedral ?)

Last edited by MeaCulpa on 06-09-2005 at 00:10

	06-09-2005 00:26									#47
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Great use of low technology way, to mark relations between discoveries...

Of course the snapshot has been taken at Firaxis before they discovered flow chart software and computer.

	06-09-2005 05:41									#48
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It reminds me of that comercial for the visa business card, they had a bunch of strings connecting different things and they called it the matrix.

"The matrix isn't perfect..."

	08-09-2005 13:01									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Sailing and (or?) Iron Working leading to the invention of the Compass very early in the tree. O.K. But magnetism not getting detected before the invention of electricity (and/or biology) much later within the tree????

You don't need magnetism for compass. Just like you don't need chemistry to get gunpowder.