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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 07:57 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Lockerbie Evidence Faked Got spare money?

I have never believed Lybia was behind the bombing. The preponderence of evidence always pointed towards the PFLP, the Syrians, and the Iranians. But that would mean that the CIA f*cked up, and we can't have that, can we.

quote:
Police chief -- Lockerbie evidence was faked

MARCELLO MEGA
Sunday 28 August 2005
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1855852005

A FORMER Scottish police chief has given lawyers a signed statement claiming that key evidence in the Lockerbie bombing trial was fabricated.

The retired officer - of assistant chief constable rank or higher - has testified that the CIA planted the tiny fragment of circuit board crucial in convicting a Libyan for the 1989 mass murder of 270 people.

The police chief, whose identity has not yet been revealed, gave the statement to lawyers representing Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi, currently serving a life sentence in Greenock Prison.

The evidence will form a crucial part of Megrahi's attempt to have a retrial ordered by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC). The claims pose a potentially devastating threat to the reputation of the entire Scottish legal system.

The officer, who was a member of the Association of Chief Police Officers Scotland, is supporting earlier claims by a former CIA agent that his bosses "wrote the script" to incriminate Libya.

Last night, George Esson, who was Chief Constable of Dumfries and Galloway when Megrahi was indicted for mass murder, confirmed he was aware of the development.

But Esson, who retired in 1994, questioned the officer's motives. He said: "Any police officer who believed they had knowledge of any element of fabrication in any criminal case would have a duty to act on that. Failure to do so would call into question their integrity, and I can't help but question their motive for raising the matter now."

Other important questions remain unanswered, such as how the officer learned of the alleged conspiracy and whether he was directly involved in the inquiry. But sources close to Megrahi's legal team believe they may have finally discovered the evidence that could demolish the case against him.

An insider told Scotland on Sunday that the retired officer approached them after Megrahi's appeal - before a bench of five Scottish judges - was dismissed in 2002.

The insider said: "He said he believed he had crucial information. A meeting was set up and he gave a statement that supported the long-standing rumours that the key piece of evidence, a fragment of circuit board from a timing device that implicated Libya, had been planted by US agents.

"Asked why he had not come forward before, he admitted he'd been wary of breaking ranks, afraid of being vilified.

"He also said that at the time he became aware of the matter, no one really believed there would ever be a trial. When it did come about, he believed both accused would be acquitted. When Megrahi was convicted, he told himself he'd be cleared at appeal."

The source added: "When that also failed, he explained he felt he had to come forward.

"He has confirmed that parts of the case were fabricated and that evidence was planted. At first he requested anonymity, but has backed down and will be identified if and when the case returns to the appeal court."

The vital evidence that linked the bombing of Pan Am 103 to Megrahi was a tiny fragment of circuit board which investigators found in a wooded area many miles from Lockerbie months after the atrocity.

The fragment was later identified by the FBI's Thomas Thurman as being part of a sophisticated timer device used to detonate explosives, and manufactured by the Swiss firm Mebo, which supplied it only to Libya and the East German Stasi.

At one time, Megrahi, a Libyan intelligence agent, was such a regular visitor to Mebo that he had his own office in the firm's headquarters.

The fragment of circuit board therefore enabled Libya - and Megrahi - to be placed at the heart of the investigation. However, Thurman was later unmasked as a fraud who had given false evidence in American murder trials, and it emerged that he had little in the way of scientific qualifications.

Then, in 2003, a retired CIA officer gave a statement to Megrahi's lawyers in which he alleged evidence had been planted.

The decision of a former Scottish police chief to back this claim could add enormous weight to what has previously been dismissed as a wild conspiracy theory. It has long been rumoured the fragment was planted to implicate Libya for political reasons.

The first suspects in the case were the Syrian-led Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC), a terror group backed by Iranian cash. But the first Gulf War altered diplomatic relations with Middle East nations, and Libya became the pariah state.

Following the trial, legal observers from around the world, including senior United Nations officials, expressed disquiet about the verdict and the conduct of the proceedings at Camp Zeist, Holland. Those doubts were first fuelled when internal documents emerged from the offices of the US Defence Intelligence Agency. Dated 1994, more than two years after the Libyans were identified to the world as the bombers, they still described the PFLP-GC as the Lockerbie bombers.

A source close to Megrahi's defence said: "Britain and the US were telling the world it was Libya, but in their private communications they acknowledged that they knew it was the PFLP-GC.

"The case is starting to unravel largely because when they wrote the script, they never expected to have to act it out. Nobody expected agreement for a trial to be reached, but it was, and in preparing a manufactured case, mistakes were made."

Dr Jim Swire, who has publicly expressed his belief in Megrahi's innocence, said it was quite right that all relevant information now be put to the SCCRC.

Swire, whose daughter Flora was killed in the atrocity, said last night: "I am aware that there have been doubts about how some of the evidence in the case came to be presented in court.

"It is in all our interests that areas of doubt are thoroughly examined."

A spokeswoman for the Crown Office said: "As this case is currently being examined by the SCCRC, it would be inappropriate to comment."

No one from the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland was available to comment.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1855852005

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 08:01
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CIA... the most crooked mother****ers in the world

ravagon is offline ravagon
King
Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 08:08
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Disquieting if true but I wholeheartily agree with this part ...

quote:
"Any police officer who believed they had knowledge of any element of fabrication in any criminal case would have a duty to act on that. Failure to do so would call into question their integrity, and I can't help but question their motive for raising the matter now."

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 08:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ravagon


Disquieting if true but I wholeheartily agree with this part ...



Standard response to whistleblowers - and it still works apparently -: discredit the messenger.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 08:34
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Well it's a clever strategy if the messenger is in fact lying so hard his head's about to fall off.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
Well it's a clever strategy if the messenger is in fact lying so hard his head's about to fall off.


shhhhhhhhht. Nobody noticed.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 09:00 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Up until Autumn of 1990, the official U.S. position was that it was the PFLP, backed by the Syrians, who did this, in revenge for the shooting down of the Iranian airliner. When the U.S. required Syria's vote on the UNSC to authorize force against Iraq, however, suddenly we discovered that Lybia was behind the bombing after all.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 09:05
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Up until Autumn of 1990, the official U.S. position was that it was the PFLP, backed by the Syrians, who did this, in revenge for the shooting down of the Iranian airliner. When the U.S. required Syria's vote on the UNSC to authorize force against Iraq, however, suddenly we discovered that Lybia was behind the bombing after all.


That's funny, since Syria was on the UNSC in 2002-03, more than a decade after Libya was marked as being behind the bombing.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 12:30 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Why would Libya pay restitution if they weren't behind the bombing?

Winston is offline Winston
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Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 12:36
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Oh the Libyans always hated money.

Wernazuma III is offline Wernazuma III
Emperor
Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 12:40 Visit Wernazuma III's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston


That's funny, since Syria was on the UNSC in 2002-03, more than a decade after Libya was marked as being behind the bombing.


I hate to say it but chegitz, you've been PWNED.

Security Council members in 1990: Canada, Colombia, Côte d'Ivoire, Cuba, Ethiopia, Finland, Malaysia, Romania, Yemen, Zaire

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 12:47
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Inflate your Upload Space

to avoid provoking an attack or invasion

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 12:59
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#13 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

or sanctions

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 15:36
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For some reason, I read the title as "Lockerbie Evidence Naked".

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 15:58 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I hate to say it but chegitz, you've been PWNED.


Okay, I was wrong on the particulars, but they did buy Syria off in the run-up to the Gulf War.

As to why Lybia would pay reparations, easy. Because it was cheaper to do so than to continue being under sanctions. If you could pay $2 billion so that you could start selling oil again, wouldn't you? What's scary is that you couldn't work that out yourself, Dis.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by ravagon


Disquieting if true but I wholeheartily agree with this part ...




The way police officers and officers of the court and members of the British Government acted speedily on the prickings of their conscience in the cases of the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, no doubt.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston


That's funny, since Syria was on the UNSC in 2002-03, more than a decade after Libya was marked as being behind the bombing.


What doe rotating seats for non-permament members have to do with it?

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 21:36
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Am I really the one having to answer to that?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 03-09-2005 21:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
Am I really the one having to answer to that?


Its you that made the point.

By it did you mean that if Syria had been in the Council in 1990, not sufficient time would have passed for it to be back in the council in 2002?

Or did you mean something else?

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 21:54
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What I meant should be evident, assuming you're able to read properly. I pointed to where chegitz guevara cooked up a little 'alternative history' to further his OP claims.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 03-09-2005 22:04 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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**** you, Winston. I made a mistake. I didn't make **** up.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 22:17
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Got spare money?

Discuss the topic, not the posters...

Regardless of the whistleblower's credibility we should investigate his claim...

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 03-09-2005 22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
**** [...] **** [...]


Well if you'll notice, I held off on that particular point until further inquired into by GePap. Then I decided to call it as I see it.

I suppose that doesn't make it any better from your POV. But try posting truthfully, and all such worries should magically disappear.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 03-09-2005 23:03 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Again, **** you! I made a mistake, I didn't lie.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:32
  Old Post 04-09-2005 06:47
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Again, **** you! I made a mistake, I didn't lie.

tsk tsk tsk

communist.

Verto is offline Verto

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Mar 2002
time: 23:32
  Old Post 04-09-2005 07:30
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Again, **** you! I made a mistake, I didn't lie.


Strictly speaking, you did as what you said was not the truth. Whether or not you intentionally lied is another thing.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 04-09-2005 09:46
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He was faking evidence to show how the CIA faked evidence. Hilarious. Also, one of the most appropriate thread titles ever seen.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:32
  Old Post 04-09-2005 18:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
He was faking evidence to show how the CIA faked evidence. Hilarious. Also, one of the most appropriate thread titles ever seen.



His mistake aside, he is correct- the C.I.A. has lied in the past to Congress:


quote:
And the CIA director was required by law to brief the Congress. This CIA director Bill Colby - the same one that dumped our people in Vietnam - he gave 36 briefings of the Congress, the oversight committees, about what we were doing in Angola. And he lied. At 36 formal briefings. And such lies are perjury, and it's a felony to lie to the Congress.


http://www.informationclearinghouse...article4068.htm


Syria had, before Lockerbie, attempted to blow up airliners- Nezar Hindawi being the most infamous case:

quote:
The UK government has broken off diplomatic relations with Syria following revelations of official complicity in Nezar Hindawi's plot to blow up an El Al airliner.
Foreign Secretary Sir Geoffrey Howe said in a statement there was "conclusive evidence" of Syrian official involvement with Mr Hindawi.

It is understood the bomb Mr Hindawi planned to use was constructed at the Syrian Embassy in London and that Mr Hindawi held a Syrian passport normally reserved for government officials.

The Syrian ambassador, Dr Loutof Haydar, said the decision to expel him was "nonsense".

The decision came just hours after Mr Hindawi was sentenced to 45 years in jail for plotting to blow up the Israeli airliner flight to Tel Aviv.

Mr Hindawi attempted to blow up the flight by planting a timer bomb inside his girlfriend's hand luggage. Ann Murphy had been under the impression that he would follow her on a later flight.

The explosives were only discovered when a security official searched the bag thinking it was too heavy. The 3lb of plastic explosives and a detonator concealed in a pocket calculator had made it through two X-ray machines undetected.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/...000/2478505.stm

It had far-reaching consequences:

quote:
Following their expulsion the Syrian authorities admitted Mr Hindawi was carrying a Syrian passport in a false name and that two separate visa applications had official support.

It was also admitted that he met the ambassador immediately after the bomb's discovery and he then stayed in accommodation belonging to a member of the Syrian Embassy.

Syria responded to their expulsion by cutting all links with Britain, including closing airspace and sea ports to British planes and ships.

The expulsion of the Syrian Embassy official was the first time an ambassador had ever been removed for being involved in criminal activities.




Syria was Iran's 'friend' in the topsy-turvy world of Middle East and Near East politics- a secular dictatorship led by an Alaouite militarist, a 'socialist' ally of the Soviet Union, allied with a theocratic Shi'ite republic which had purged Communist elements in Iran.

Both supported Hezbollah in Lebanon- Iran's oil revenues could fund Syria's campaigns in Lebanon and its terrorist activities.


Two years later, the U.S.S. Vincennes shoots down an Iranian airliner, and then hoopla! a short while later, for no reason, the Libyans bring down a jet over Lockerbie.

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