04-09-2005 15:24									#31
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Those methods don't work anymore because they have basically been neutralized by the global reach of the media, including independent media sources like the Internet.

The Internet basically pwnz wrongdoing as long as someone is able to document it.

	04-09-2005 15:54									#32
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Reason why I consider methods involving prisons like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo ineffective. If you can't prevent guards from making home videos of their 'achievements', you can't run a prison like that.

And I don't promote genocide or crap like that, I just consider it idiotic to try to govern Iraq by the 'rule of law' for as long as the country remains unstable.

	04-09-2005 15:57									#33
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Heersher,

I've often predicted that the country will become stable under the means you described earlier. I don't think the US will be the ones to do it. I think the Iraqi forces will eventually develop into a strong force. Along the lines of what happened in El Salvador. When I say, stong, I mean brutal.

There are already Shiite police groups that are running reprisal operations against the Sunnis. Basically they are death squads.

	04-09-2005 16:03									#34
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I think so too. Someone will have to do the nasty stuff to create order, and it can't be US. But US will find a way to make sure the "winners" are their allies.

	04-09-2005 16:23									#35
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Drake posted an article about a journalist embedded with an Army group in Mosul. This group works closely with the Iraqi police. The police described the Americans as "soft." Not soft in the way that they don't fight hard or bravely, but soft in the way they treat their prisoners.

The Iraqi police chief one time tried to convince the Army to leave a captured prisoner with him overnight so he could "find out" where an insurgent cell was. The journalist had full confidence that the police would find out too. He had full confidence that the police would do it. The Americans went around and questioned the neighborhood, but were unable to find the suspects, because nobody said anything.

	04-09-2005 16:25									#36
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Here it is. Army LTC Kurilla has become a sort of legend:

http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/

	04-09-2005 18:42									#37
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quote: One radical idea I had was to create a separate unit, sortof a cross-breed of National Guard/Border Guard/Military Police, that were specialized in peacekeeping.

This idea has beenput on the table many times, but always get shot down for two reasons.

1. A "police division" reminds people of Nazi police divisions, and though there is no logical connection if it reminds anyone of nazis, it must be a bad idea.

2. People start screaming their head off about how the military is organizing itself for the oppression of the homeland, a la how third world countries organize their army for internal threats vice external.

I wholeheartedly support the creation of police divisions.

	04-09-2005 18:45									#38
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quote: One radical idea I had was to create a separate unit, sortof a cross-breed of National Guard/Border Guard/Military Police, that were specialized in peacekeeping.

You can't fight a brutal insurgency with a fluffy soft approach.

People just have to realize war is messy and let us lay the smackdown. Far less people will die in the long run.

	04-09-2005 20:45									#39
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Using overwhelming fire power against insurgency will only create more insurgents, as you piss people off. If you go into a country "liberate" it, you should treat the civilians like you would treat your own citizens, which calls for certain RoE.

	04-09-2005 21:25									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Here it is. Army LTC Kurilla has become a sort of legend: http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the link. Good one

But what does "double take" mean in some guy did a "double take" on the Strykers and that gave him off. English is not my native language, can you translate that for me?

	04-09-2005 21:29									#41
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quote: But what does "double take" mean in some guy did a "double take" on the Strykers and that gave him off.

It's when you look at something, look away, and then quickly look back again. Usually happens when you want a second look at something important, like an attractive woman or an armored vehicle you're planning to blow up.

	04-09-2005 21:32									#42
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Ah, thanks.

	04-09-2005 21:34									#43
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Shouldn't peacekeeping be part of the basic indoctrination of the Military Police? In peacetime they are oftyen called to settle disturbances on or off base. In wartime they're deployed along with the troops to keep order behind the lines.

	04-09-2005 22:28									#44
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quote: Shouldn't peacekeeping be part of the basic indoctrination of the Military Police? In peacetime they are oftyen called to settle disturbances on or off base. In wartime they're deployed along with the troops to keep order behind the lines.

It is a totally different things. Our soldiers are US citizens indoctrinated to our society, and for the most part will follow rules if somewhat similar to what they are used to and backed up by recognized authority figures.

Persons of a third party rarely have both of those, usually neither.

	04-09-2005 22:33									#45
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion School of the Americas

School of the Assassins

	04-09-2005 22:35									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos You can't fight a brutal insurgency with a fluffy soft approach. People just have to realize war is messy and let us lay the smackdown. Far less people will die in the long run.

1) BS!
2) Fascist.

	04-09-2005 23:14									#47
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara School of the Assassins

I was being sarcastic.

	05-09-2005 01:03									#48
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Sarcasm doesn't translate well into text.

	05-09-2005 03:08									#49
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Thanks for the link. Good one But what does "double take" mean in some guy did a "double take" on the Strykers and that gave him off. English is not my native language, can you translate that for me?

Nobody does a doubletake on Ted Striker and live to tell about it!!!

	05-09-2005 03:09									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos You can't fight a brutal insurgency with a fluffy soft approach. People just have to realize war is messy and let us lay the smackdown. Far less people will die in the long run.

That philosophy is exactly the problem.

	05-09-2005 03:12									#51
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quote: That philosophy is exactly the problem.

I don't know, I am still struggling WRT whether that philosophy is right or wrong, but you can hardly say that it's been tried.

	05-09-2005 03:57									#52
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We could at minimum say that it depends on the situation. Often, adversaries only respect strength and force. But sometimes, smooth talking is the better way to go. This was shown in our invasion of the Phillipines, where building schools and communities was often very effective.

On the other hand, blowing up entire villages was also effective.