04-09-2005 13:03									#31
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Follow Darryl Hannah's example and convert your car's engine to process vegetable oil

You can get your local McD's to give you their 'used up' oil they were gonna to throw away and power your engine using that.

	04-09-2005 15:49									#32
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As I mentioned a little while back, the inventor actually intended the diesel engine to run on vegetable oils, and there is a real suspicion that he might have been bumped off by those with hydrocarbon interests even way back then...

I've been looking into this as well - thinking that maybe my next car will be able to run on biodiesel...

For real independence, check out the German Elsbett engines, which allow you to use SVO, Biodiesel or normal diesel in the same tank...

	04-09-2005 16:30									#33
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What's so great about being energy independent?

And if you want to acheive that goal, why are you buying a vehicle?

Now if you really wanted to reduce your reliance on fossil fuels, then buy a bicycle and move to a place close to work.

	04-09-2005 16:41									#34
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Like me?

Don't you think the first part of you question has been handsomely answered time and time again especially over the last few years - and days in particular...?:cutel

	04-09-2005 17:28									#35
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

More good tips and comments here this morning! And I appreciate everyone's interest and input! I'll definitely do the photojournal thing of my progress when I get to that point, and make my plans public too, as they begin to come together, if there's an interest in following the project.

Again though, this is not, and will not be some short term thing....it's gonna take months, if not a year or more to save some cash to start making things happen in any kind of big way, and until then, progress will prolly come at a snail's pace. Nonetheless, I plan to use the slow times to do LOTS of research, which will be key in formulating the best possible plan to get me from here to there.

I wish I had that link to the "Smart house" that was built in LA, it was completely self contained I believe except for the drinking water.

I've read about it...seen a few pics...VERY impressive piece of building!

Seriously...you can even be water independent - collect rainwater in buckets, dig a well for groundwater, and use your own process to purify it....

Have you thought about trash independent? If you reused and recycled you could probalby cut yourself down to a tiny cube's worth of trash a week (let's say a computer game box). But that still has to have somewhere to go.

What about sewage independent?

Food independent? Raising your own cows, growing your own corn?

Oh, and I don't mean to set you down the path of total nutdom, but it would probably be a good idea to have something to defend yourself with--once Hurricane The Whole US is FCKED makes landfall and you're the last person in your city to have food, people will go after you.

Intriguing ideas, all, but given where I live right now, I'm not sure the neighborhood association would appreciate cows. The goal is to keep as many of the modern conveniences as I can (including DSL Extreme!), but not be dependent on either "the grid" or the oil companies.

The others ideas you mentioned are excellent, no doubt, but the economics just aren't there for me yet (ie, I only spend $30/month in sewage fees....vastly cheaper to let the city do its thing than for me to build my own system...but contrast this with Gas ($200.00 per month), or Electricity ($175.00 per month), and it becomes more worth my time to investigate other alternatives...I could go for having almost $100.00 week extra, which would be the payback if I can become completely independent.

Anyway Vel, if you want a copy of the vid I'll make you one and send it to you.
Lancer, although I'm not allowed to raise goats and pigs where I am, I'm curious to see your vid! No need to send me a copy the conventional way, tho., PM me when ready to send and I'll shoot you my e-mail info!

I've been wondering, was it really scorpion poison that made you so I'll, or was it just a bit of literary license?


Winston, *definitely* scorpion venom...and don't try that at home!

Follow Darryl Hannah's example and convert your car's engine to process vegetable oil

You can get your local McD's to give you their 'used up' oil they were gonna to throw away and power your engine using that.

Barinthus, that is actually one of the things I was looking into. The contest in my head is between SVO/WVO (straight or waste veggie oil) or BioD. Making BioD involves extra time and steps, so if I don't have to, then I don't wanna. But, if there are some compelling reasons why I SHOULD make biod, then I sure will take the extra time (ie., does one have a longer "shelf life" than the other (how long can each be safely stored and still used?). Does one get significantly better mpg than the other? These are questions I do not have answers to yet.....


German Elsbett engines,
Did not know that! Thanks, Mobius!


Ting:
What's so great about being energy independent?

Get out from under high gas prices, more money in my pocket each month, don't have to rely on the government in the event of a natural disaster (rest of the city is without lights, and we're still chugging along on Kenton Drive...I like that)...Lots of pretty compelling reasons, I think.

And if you want to acheive that goal, why are you buying a vehicle?

Now if you really wanted to reduce your reliance on fossil fuels, then buy a bicycle and move to a place close to work.
Simply that geograpy is working against me. I like my house, and I don't wanna move.

I live 21 miles from where I work.

I'm interested in becoming energy independent, but I'm not interested in a marathon trip to work every day.

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 17:34									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

Vel, I am 6'5'', and I fit in my mothers 5 series Golf perfectly. there is plenty of room in them, for 4 adults.

So long as only two of you are over 6'6''

	04-09-2005 17:41									#37
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Like me? Don't you think the first part of you question has been handsomely answered time and time again especially over the last few years - and days in particular...?:cutel

High oil prices hasn't affected me yet. I don't own a car. I use mass transit instead. Makes life a lot more easier, and cheaper. Any increase in natural gas or electricity prices will have a small effect relative on my income.

As for natural disasters, I live in a city that is unlikely to be affected.

So it would cost me far more money and time to become "energy independent".

Not that I'm arguing with Vel's goal. To each their own.

I would agree that getting a fuel efficient car is always good idea.

	04-09-2005 18:38									#38
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Krill: Good to know! It's definitely on the "to be test-driven" list!

Ting: Kudos for the mass transit thing....wouldn't work where I live, cos not much attention has been paid to mass transit, and I shudder to think how much time I'd waste trying to catch a series of busses and shuttles from where I live to where I work. Ugh...it'd be a HUGE timesuck.

Anybody know of ANY trucks that get the same kind of mileage that we're talking about here? The reason I'm so interested in a work vehicle in general is cos...if I do go the route of securing sources of waste oil, it'd be MUCH easier to cart them home in the truck bed, rather than the hatchback or trunk.

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 18:47									#39
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man, you're 6'6''?

I thought that we and Cali were the tallest on poly ( 6'5'')

	04-09-2005 18:51									#40
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I know a member who's 6'7", but he hasn't posted in ages, and even then, never posted much.

	04-09-2005 18:54									#41
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Six six and some change, yep...makes buying clothes and fitting into vehicles a b*tch...LOL...

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 18:55									#42
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Has the age shrinking thing finally start to kick in, Zop??

	04-09-2005 19:25									#43
	Remove this text

I'll be the first to admit that I'm more or less makin' this up as I go. Sure, I've done a fair bit of reading at this point, but still, there are a lot of unanswered questions out there, and I don't really have a good feel for the subject yet.

So...it seems to me that the first thing I need to do is to figure out where I AM, so I can get a better sense of where I'm going, AND come up with a definitive destination for myself...where I WANT to be.

To that end, I thought I'd best sketch out the "destination" first so I can compare that to where I am, at present.

Goal of the Experiment
To find out if it is possible, given the level of alt energy technology, to maintain all (or most) of the conveniences I enjoy right now, but to do so in such a way that removes me completely from dependence on "the grid" and "Big Oil" FOR these modern conveniences.

Specifically, I would like to:
* Generate all my own electricity to run my house (surplus to sell back would be nice, but is not a part of the initial goal)
* Generate all my own fuel to power my personal vehicle (haven't sold Christina on BioD...she supports my experiment, but wants to see how it works for me before jumping on the proverbial bandwagon).

Reasons for the Experiment
* Security (fewer worries about losing essential functionality if disaster strikes)
* Independence (no longer have to fret over the increasing price at the pump, can thumb my nose at the power company AND big oil)
* Money back (given current expenditures, if total independence can be achieved, the savings will amount to $375.00 US (200/month gas expense + 175/month electricity expense), per month ($4500/yr)). Significant.

Where I am Now
I'm going to start tracking my power useage at home each month, so I can chart my progress there. Fuel useage is pretty stable, from month to month, and given the distance I live from work, there's not much that can be done about it, so I've just annualized my fuel consumption.

Vehicular Stats
Fuel Useage
Average miles driven per year: 16,000
Current Vehicle: '97 Ford Ranger
MPG: 21
Estimated annual fuel consumption (regular unleaded): 762 gallons per year
Current fuel price as of this morning: (9-4-05) $3.35/gallon

Projection
If I can find a vehicle that gets ~45mpg, my annual fuel consumption would drop to 356 gallons per year. VERY significant (280 gallons less consumption). This is important because if I have to secure/make all my own fuel, then the LESS I have to make, the less time consuming it will be. I like less time consuming.

This brings an important point to the fore....conservation MUST BE the first step in the process, and this will shade and direct my strategic planning when I get to that point.

Home Stats
Electrical Useage
Size of House: ~2000 square feet
Size of Lot: ~0.75 Acre
Current KWh used (last month's bill): 1957
KWh used this time one year ago: 2014
(I'll be tracking this useage each month from here on out, so I can see what effects my efforts at conservation are having, and will report the results here)

Projection
I can cut this value by AT LEAST 25% by finding ways of conserving juice in and around the house. Important, because that means less juice I'll need to generate for myself.

Methodology & Overall Plan
This is still very much a work in progress. For the moment, it'll just be a listing of the various technologies I've discovered thus far. I'll work on and worry about tying them together into a cohesive system as we get closer to it. For the time being, this will be the primary focus of research.

* Diesel Vehicle to replace my aging truck, with a plan to either make my own BioD, or use SVO, WVO to power it.
* Extensive Solar array on the house, the shed, and every other surface I can co-opt for that use (pictures of the outside of the house to follow, with indications of where I can potentially put solar arrays).
* Will need to either build or excavate to create room for the battery array to store excess power to help even the flows...UGH...that'll be expensive.
* Diesel Generator could be housed in the same location as the battery array, and be used to fill in any gaps that solar leaves in power generation (cloudy days, and even on sunny days, the yield may not be sufficient). Based on the above figures, I use an average of 63KW/day, so would need a generator that could pull that kind of load. Easy to find (have already found sources on the 'net).

Wind: Probably impractical for here...not enough space, not enough wind.
Micro-Hydro: Best, most efficient means of indie power generation, but alas, I have no stream on my property....

So it looks like BioD and Solar will make up the backbone of the proposed system.

Sources of Bio-D/WVO-SVO
* Local fast food chains
* Home grown (research indicates that the Japtura Tree yields seeds all year long that produce significant quantities of oil that can be refined into either SVO or Bio-D. These trees are attractive, and blend in with my landscaping plans anyways. Can plant two rows in the back yard, one along one side of the house, and perhaps a few more here and about. The seeds are 50-65% oil, and the yields are impressive, at least according to research. I can buy a seed press on the cheap, and easily generate a significant quantity of oil. Not enough to power the car and the house on the property I have, but it may be worth looking into acquiring some additional property, devoting it exclusively to the production of oil. We'll see.

And...that's all for now...

-=Vel=-

Next up: I need to take an inventory of every electrical appliance in the house and see where some savings can be made....

	04-09-2005 19:27									#44
	Tired of ads?

okay I would just like to point out, particularly for the sake of any children present, that doing anything I post about is not recommended

But the biofuel thing is intriguing and when I get back to Aus I am going to try a diesel engine. hopefully by that time the alernative fuels will be more widely available

the major flaw in the biofuel plan right now is the lack of infrastructure to support that choice

	04-09-2005 19:32									#45
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Good point, AH...not as BIG an issue here, since most of our trucking and transpo fleet operates on dino-D, so if I leave the area to go travelling, I can always pull into the trucking side of a filling station and top off the tanks (research so far has indicated that BioD and DinoD are interchangeable).

That should solve the travel problem, tho for the duration of the trip, that puts me back to dependence on big oil...

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 19:59									#46
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I'd like to know if the consumption and mileage is comparable, also the effect on engine parts like the fuel system, which is currently designed to suit petroleum products. Also power and engine performance. Is if the same? Better? Worse? So let us know how it goes.

I believe that petroleum won out not so much because of some sort of conspiracy but because it is highly combustible, much better than other possible fuels.

	04-09-2005 20:06									#47
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I'll certainly do so! I would imagine that I'll be experimenting extensively as my little project moves from the planning stages and into actual practice....finding my way, and what works better/more efficiently than others.

My sense of it is though, that even if WVO is less efficient in terms of MPG, if it's a free source, then it wins, hands down...of course, things will change. If BioD gets more than a cult following in the US, then the free sources of waste oil will dry up as companies come to the awareness that they have a saleable product....which could totally alter the equation....

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 20:10									#48
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Room-by-room Survey of Electrical Appliances
Upstairs
Office
* Two PC's (400W power supply)
* Two Monitors (75W + 120W)
* Two mini speaker systems (one for each system) (est. 12W each)
* Westell Wirespeed Modem (?)
* Linksys Router (?)
* HP Photosmart Printer (?)
* Cannon Flatbed Scanner (?)
* Overhead Light (75w)
* Ceiling Fan (?)
* Auxillery Lighting (75w)

Equipment not in use in the office
* Desktop Mini-Stereo System (NA)
* Two additional PC's (unplugged and not in use, may be added later)(NA for now)
* Surround Sound System (400w) (not in use)

Upstairs Bath
* Lighting (75w * 3)
* Vent fan (?)
* Independent (redundant) Water Heater (?)
* The upstairs is heated and cooled by the house's secondary (redundant) AC (? power consumption)

Little H's Art Room
* Primary Lighting (75w)
* Ceiling Fan (?)
* Auxillary Lighting (75w)
* 27" Flatscreen TV (?)
* Surround Sound System (400W)
* DVD Player (?)
* VCR (?)

Connecting Hallway and Stairwell
* 75w x2 (one each, stairwell and hallway)
* Cordless Phone Upstairs (?)

Survey of upstairs electrical equipment complete

1544W used if everything I have numbers for is on...plus, there are several items I don't have power consumption figures for yet. Will need to also estimate how many hours per day, on average, this stuff is actually on, to arrive at a good estimate. Number is meaningless and incomplete at this point.

Downstairs survey will take a good bit longer....

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 20:39									#49
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Downstairs
Living Room
* Emergency Lighting (40w)
* OH Lighting (3x40w)
* Ceiling Fan (?)
* 3 Floor Lamps (75w * 3)
* 32" TV (?)
* VCR (?)
* DVD (?)
* Surround Sound System (400w)
* Cordless Phone (?)
* Game Cube (?)

Dining Room
* OH Lighting (5x 40w)

Kitchen
* OH Lighting (1x75w)
* OH LIghting (4x40w)
* Ceiling Fan (?)
* Range (?)
* Refridgerator (?)
* Microwave (?)
* Tea Maker (?)
* Coffee Pot (?)
* Toaster (?)
* Toaster Oven (?)
* George Foreman Grill (lg) (wedding present) (?)
* Griddle (wedding present) (?)
* Crock Pot (?)
* Veggie Steamer (?)
* Waffle Iron (?)
* Electric Wok (?)
* Range Light (40w)
* Range Vent Fan (?)
* Light over Sink (20W Flourescent)

Connecting Hallway
* OH Lighting (75w)

Guest Bath
* OH Lighting (3x75w)
* Laundry Area Lighting (60w)

Master Bedroom
* OH Lighting (75w)
* Ceiling Fan (?)
* Table Lamp (60w)
* Clock Radio (?)
* Cordless Phone (?)
* 19" TV (?)
* DVD (?)
* VCR (?)

Master Bath
* OH Lighting (2x75w)
* Shower Light (60w)
* Small Fan (?)
* Hair Dryer (?)
* Curling Iron (?)

Other Equipment that uses electricity
* The downstairs is heated and cooled by the house's primary AC unit (?)
* Hot water for the downstairs is courtesy of the house's primary water heating unit (?)
* Two Vaccuums (one up, one down) (??)
* Shop Vac (wet dry vac) (?)
* Two electric fans in reserve (not plugged in or in use at present) (?)
* Iron (?)
* Electric Blanket (?)
* Two Heating Pads (?)

Whew....dang but there's a lot of electrical stuff in this house! I didn't realize it until I went room to room....sheesh...and a lot of this stuff we just plain don't need.

Wow. That was insightful, and I'm not near done yet!

-=Vel=-

Next up: continue to get numbers for the items missing numbers and start coming up with total consumption figures to see if I can get a match, or close match to what the power company says I'm using....tedious and time consuming...UGH

EDIT:
Switching from the incandescent bulbs in the 60 and 75w category tho, and putting in flourecents, should give me comparable lighting with approximately half the wattage used. That should be pretty significant. Not sure if I'll like the quality of light, but will definitely play with it, and this would be a good, inexpensive first step. See what this does to the overall power consumption....my guess would be 10-15% drop in overall consumption. Given that my target was a 25% reduction, if that's on the money, then that's an easy fix indeed!

Hot water heaters...not really negotiable...expensive to replace and we're not going without hot water, so they're just what they are. AC...we can nudge the thermostat down a couple degrees and see what that does, on top of the lighting.

Looks like a trip to Sears might be in my future....hmmm....

Last edited by Velociryx on 04-09-2005 at 20:51

	04-09-2005 20:46									#50
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Vel, are you sure there are many diesel retailers in your area? If not, you might end up being dependent on a few specific retailers for your fuel.

	04-09-2005 20:48									#51
	Support Apolyton

Yep...several. Almost every gas station in town has at least a couple of Diesel pumps...we're good on that front!

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 20:55									#52
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Well, then don't hesitate

IIUC, one needs very little quantity of diesel in comparison to other fuels. This means that you could possibly stockpile a significant quantity of diesel at home, if you want to be cautious.

On the hippie front: diesel is not less polluting than regular oil. A diesel car burns fewer fuel than other kinds, but it drops quite nasty things in the environment. If you're sensitive to environment issues, I'd suggest you take a car that burns vegetal fuels, or a car that burns regular fuel, but with a much better mileage than American cars.

	04-09-2005 20:59									#53
	Got spare money?

And this little guy might prove handy too:

http://www.energybuddy.com

Not terribly expensive...after the wedding has come and gone, this might be worth a look. If it doesn't work, nothing lost, really...if it helps...so much the better! Either way, I'll keep posting the numbers, so we'll have a record of what works and what doesn't, and I'll do one thing at a time so we can see the impact.

So...it looks like my first three steps are mapped out then. Not very glamerous, and quite some ways from actually beginning experiments with BioD, but....

* Step One (turn the dang thermostat down) (free) (see what impact it has) 4 degrees upstairs, 2 degrees downstairs and hold.

* Step Two (replace all 60 & 75w incandescent lights with flourescent bulbs) (see what impact that has)

* Step Three...grab one of these little energybuddy things and see if it does anything.

Humble beginning, to be sure, but, until we get some cash flow freed up, it will be slow goings....

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 21:02									#54
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An excellent point, Master Spiff! And re: stockpiling, I have been thinking along those lines....I've seen/heard mentioned that one type of cheaply available, yet high quality "storage tank" are the tanks that are used in septic systems. Available in quantity, strong and sturdy, high capacity....might be just the ticket!

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 21:06									#55
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I don't know how it is in the US, but in Europe we have energy-saving bulbs. They are more costly than a regular bulb when you buy them, but they are less costly in the long run:
- they eat up about 5 times less electricity, and provide as much light.
- they have an extended life expectancy

Another thing we do to save energy is investing in thermic isolation of the house. A well isolated house can dramatically reduce the costs of both heating and air conditioning. Again, I have no idea whether the isolation is on the same par in the US, or not.

	04-09-2005 21:09									#56
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More details about energy-saving bulbs (Britain)

	04-09-2005 21:10									#57
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'll definitely look into all the lighting options when I go down to the local store....either flourescent or some low wattage solution like you suggessted...whichever seems to offer the better deal.

I'm definitely not afraid of spending a bit upfront to see savings down the road. Of course, all this will have to be AFTER the wedding!

Insulation: House is pretty well insulated, but the two AC units themselves are 15 years old...would probably, at some point, be in my best interest to look at replacing them with newer, more efficient models. they are mechanically sound, but I'm sure that the efficiency has advanced in the last fifteen years, and the savings, especially in the hot southlands, could be significant.

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 21:13									#58
	Tired of ads?

YES! Those are the exact bulbs I had in mind! That's what I'll be looking for when I go to replace all the ones here in the house! On the same page!

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2005 21:16									#59
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm a cheapstake, and I also do another thing to reduce my energy consumption: in my flat, tap water is warmed by an electrical water tank right below the sink. It's easy to turn the tank on and off (it's about as complex as using the faucet), but many people let the tank always on. As I use warm water only a few minutes a day, I let the thing almost always off. It saved quite a bit too

	04-09-2005 21:19									#60
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The energy saving bulbs are definitely the way to go. We did this several years ago, replacing around around 10 conventional bulbs with them. The results were pretty impressive with a reduction of around £10-£15 per month during the first winter (Yorkshire was very gloomy). Also they last ages. We lived in that house for a further 18 months and then 6 years in the next one. We took all the bulbs with us and over the whole period had to replace no more than 3 or 4 of them.

Be careful about storing fuel. There is a limit in the UK about how much petrol can be stored at home so you might want to check whether there is a restriction on storing diesel in your area.

As for hauling stuff can't you get a towbar fitted and buy a trailer. That way you only have the extra carrying capacity when you need it rather than dragging extra metal around all the time.