06-09-2005 19:17									#1
	CDZ is 3rd civ, according to CBR Get a bigger avatar today!

CBR divulged, in the chat yesterday, that CDZ is the 3rd civ on our contenent (it is still no certain, if there aren't yet more that aren't found - i.e. 4 civs this contenent, 2 civs on other).

So, we will have to face MW's sooner rather than later. I am disturbed by this and we need to start working on various warplans.

around the 50 turns limit (say turn 75 to 80), there will likely be war on this contenent.

In the last game, do know that CDZ used a false invasion to fake (a feint) the main route of their Army, thus catching teir opponent off gaurd.

CDZ is experianced with Ancient Era Warfare and they have an excellent UU for that purpose.

CDZ does have one weakness, there members use thir forum for 'spoilers' of their various PBEM duel games. This can be a vital intelligence tool, but requires time to go through the whole thing and to present intel evaluations of all of this.

But from what I've read, any war that we have with CDZ will be a tough one. They would have no qualms against triggering our GA while we are still in Despotism. We must be very carefull, dealing with them.

If we use them as help against CBR, expect them to possibly backstab us. I think that they won't mind being the only civ on this contenent, if they have time to develope it in anticipation of future contact with other contenent.

So, we have lots to do, lets get started.

E_T

	06-09-2005 22:32									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If CDZ is realy such a warmongering nation are you sure we want to meet them soon? We would meet them with an Enkidu and they might take the chance to trigger our GA.

	06-09-2005 22:46									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Depends on if we take CBR at their word.

only problem is that it will be difficult to build other units to explore with. The best one to explore with would be the chariot,but we won't be able to have one of those built until turn 40 at the earliest (and that assumes we find horses already connected to the road network). Next is archers, then Horsemen, then swords. And sending a sword to explore can seem quite aggressive.

The simplist way would be to camp Enkidus on highlands, and simply wait for the other civ to contact us. If their unit moved next to use (and I suggest we ask them not to first), we can simply disband the unit, so we don't get a premature GA.

	07-09-2005 03:38									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

let's hope that our explore find first some barbs to get elite.

Than who ever would trigger take the risk that we get a leader.

..hm ok i want to get that hut and to find 3 barbs in it..

if useful..units shuld be disbanded.

sirleif

	07-09-2005 04:44									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

After GCA was eliminated in round one, CGN and CDZ become allies in blood. Since only three could advance, CDZ sent over an exploring boat to find a feuding CFC and C3B. I don't know why, but earlier they decided to eliminate CFC, so our fate was sealed. CDZ landed 40 mounted warriors (CGN with 40 gallic swords).

Trust me. From this and CDZ spoilers, they are going to fight someone. The question is, do they go after the more powerful Apolyton with CBR and turn on them later, or go for a quick conquest of CBR hoping to use their golden age to pump out even more mounted warriors aimed at our demise. Here's a list of CFCers on their team, bold denoting members of the CFC team:

akots - Pro PBEM player. Micromanages and not afraid to hurt your feelings should your idea be "wrong." Former CFC turnplayer.
classical_hero - Not the best player.
col - Moderator.
Ginger_Ale - Good PBEM player. The other admin at CFC's Multi-Team Demogame (along with yours truly).
Hygro - Pops in from time to time to offer his opinion. Probably lurking.
Matrix - Moderator. Although his reputation is high, some questions he has asked from time to time makes him come across as not the best PBEM player.
Rik Meleet - Demogame moderator. Skilled PBEM player. Micromanager. Former CFC turnplayer.
Whomp - He's one of the three on the CFC team of the CFC verses Russian forum PBEM. He has knowledge of the game, and is a good PBEM player.
Wildfire - I've played the mafia game with him. Not too much more...
Yndy - The occasional poster.

	07-09-2005 05:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If I was on CDZ, I would be courting CBR to help take down the bigger team APO.
From RM's comments above, I assume that's what they did with CFC.
We even did it in round one. We would of aligned with with either team on the other continent, but our preference was to get rid of the more powerful GWT team.

I hope the geography allows us to convince CDZ that CBR is the more juicier target.
And that we have a better chance of manipulating and eliminating the other continent teams, if we work together rather than war.

	07-09-2005 12:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think we'd be better off trying to "team up" with CBR against CDZ for two reasons:

1. I'd rather face a defensive UU (Swiss Mercenary: 1-4-1) than an offensive UU (Mounted Warrior: 3-1-2). There will be more opportunity for us to build and thus play to our strengths. CBR will not likely go on the offensive 1 vs 1 against us unless they feel they have a distinct advantage. CBR's likely thought is to wait to contact another Civ on another Continent and petition for help in dealing with us then.


2. Though I do think we'd be able to survive a MW attack because of our relatively cheap defender I think we'd be likely to get CBR to ally with us against CDZ than the other way around. Plus, we'd then have to worry about CDZ turning on us once CBR was well under control.

Note:

The MW will win ~51% (less than thought due to retreats) of the time against a fortified Enkidu on a grassland tile. With the MW cost of 30 shields and the Enkidu at 10 shields we hold the distinct advantage. With city walls we're looking at a 34% chance of the MW winning.

While an Archer will defeat a MW 79.2% of the time, not counting retreats which are about 50-60% for Veteran "Fast Moving" units of which an Archer can clean up up quite quickly if we are the defenders and have a road network and available units with which to reach the retreating MW.

	07-09-2005 13:36									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

BF, it will be a hard sell to get City Walls built in cities that are on rivers/freash water. "Oh we can get up to size 7 and they walls won't be needed", etc, etc, etc. But we can try.

I just don't like CBR having the majority of this continent available for them to us, while we have just the north.

I think that we can deal with CDZ and if we take CBR out before they make contact with other Continent, then we can have some time to get the fastmover advantage with Chivalry.

Remember, we ARE Scientific. Give us enough time and they won't be a problem...

E_T

	07-09-2005 16:44									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I am with Big Free. the Mounted warrior is outclassed by a despotism making cheap enkidus, we should team up with CBR and attack CDZ.

We could always address the space issue by drawing a border with CBR, such that after the war we've got access to the southern lands..

On ET's city wall point - as long as there are a few workers about we can always add them to any city facing attack, until the size = 7, if there is a reluctance to spend the vast, huge, terrible amount of shields required for the walls

	07-09-2005 17:36									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

I could imagine the decision of eliminating CFC in the first round based on their oportunity to destroy the stronger team and get a weaker team to the finals, thus bettering their chances of winning the finals

	07-09-2005 18:39									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

All this talk of allying CBR...

In the words of Darth Vader, "NOOOOO!"

	07-09-2005 19:29									#12
	Put an end to popups!

@RM: it's only temporary...

	07-09-2005 22:00									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I got some very evil thoughts running through my head, so let me try to express them:

I guess every team on our continent is interested in eliminating one of the others and ally with the second afterwards to conquer the second continent.
The other option after there are only two teams left on our continent is to eliminate the third team on the continent, too.

CBR seems to be interested in allying with us and we will probably meet CDZ some time soon.
So when we meet them and we tell CBR we will work with them we can play a double agent and tell CDZ we will work with them, too.
Of course we would pass on everything we talk with CDZ to CBR so they think we realy work with them.
We will get CDZ to attack CBR together with us and tell CBR this is a good tactic because when they know where CDZ attacks they will be able to defend themselves even against Mounted Warriors.
They will place most of their units near the border to CDZ and they will know about CDZs plans.
So when CDZ attacks both will lose many units and we will attack CBR at their nearly undefended border near us. This way we will lose nearly no units and we will have a weak CDZ who is on our continent.
So we can invade them afterwards and have a continent for our own.

One important question is if we realy want a continent for our own as the other continent will probably run away with their technologies! Though once we contact them we are probably able to close up to them as they will also have had some wars and we are much bigger and scientific. And they will not dare to attack a giant like us oversea.


But the most important point is that I do not think this is a nice way of winning and I will definitely not support this tactic. Though I guess it would work out nicely if we are careful, thats why I wanted to tell it to you guys.


I hope my English is good enough so you understood everything I meant.
Opinions?

	08-09-2005 04:11									#14
	Suffering from ads?

I understood it fine. However, what I love is how you proposed it, but don't support it.

It's dastardly, but if we could justify ourselves with more than "Backstab!" I'd like to hear it.

	08-09-2005 05:27									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

LOL@P-A

It could work but it is suceptable. Trying to play two teams against each other while making each one think we are on "their" side without divulging too much or too little information which may make either team examine our each and every move and the motives behind them. That would be a very difficult task. I'd much rather recruit one solid ally and provide them with enough information and "evidence" that we REALLY are their ally so that we don't drag out the war againt the other by hedging our bets on the war by keeping a large number of units at home "just in case."

Also, once we have proved to them what a great ally we are it will be easier to stab them at a latter point!

Plus, your point about having a Continent by ourselves while the other Continent may have 2-3 teams for a longer period will cause the other Continent to surpass us tech wise is a point that we cannot dismiss!

It IS very vital we keep at least 1 other team with us here. We use that team to destroy at least 1 other Civ on another Continent. Then once we make it a 1, 2 or 3 civ race we can consider stabbing our once staunch ally inthe back.