06-09-2005 23:58									#1
	EU type of peace negotiation Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wonder if it will be possible to mod into CIV 4 the EU type of peace negotiation, which I think is much more realistic and fun.

Basically instead of keeping the cities that you have captured to yourself, you have to negotiate a peace treaty, where you suggest the plan who gets which cities. This is especially important when you have war between alliances, and want to make a peace. Then the allies can get the cities, even if they directly did not conquer them, but help, say in money or in technology to fight the war.

But the main problem in CIV 3 and potentially in CIV 4 peace negotiation is that there is no easy way to stop war between alliances. Currently each has to negotiate peace treaty by itself. Suppose that you have 3 countries in alliance fighting 3 other countries in alliance. In order to make piece, currently we need to make 9(!!) peace offers (3 for each country) and they all must be accepted. If even one peace offer does not go through, than at first military action we have the war all over again. Even if there would be a way to ask your allies to make peace, we would need to do it 9 times! And it is easy to miss one of them.

May be peace negotiations are significantly modified in CIV 4, but still I think that EU handles them very nicely.

	07-09-2005 03:15									#2
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In Civ4, we will be capable of asking someone to declare war to another country. Maybe they could make possible ask two countries to sign peace, first you ask one and then you directly go to a diplomacy with the other; when both acept it, the negociation finishes. In History, many countries negociated between 2 other; and maybe a war between them can be bad to you, and then you want to make the peace.

	07-09-2005 03:59									#3
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But what does it mean to "ask" two countries to make peace? Would we be able to threaten them? Bribe them? That could be cool.

	07-09-2005 07:01									#4
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They have already stated that we will be able to negotiate peace between two other civs. They haven't said much about the extent, but we can expect to see a good bit more from the diplomacy system

	07-09-2005 08:54									#5
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I would love if conquered cities became "occupied," and ownership had to be settled in any peace treaty. You could get a cease fire in which the conqueror holds the cities until ownership is traded.

Occupied cities would be of reduced value to the conqueror until their status was determined, so that the little cycle in which the victor becomes hugely more powerful and turns the victim's cities against them takes a little more work than it used to.

	07-09-2005 09:58									#6
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Yeah, I think that this idea of cities becoming occupied until a peace treaty is signed is the way to go, but does anyone have any suggestions about how to handle the negotiations regarding the treaty?

	07-09-2005 12:41									#7
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The status of occupation should not appear at the beginning of the game.

International law or "jus inter gentes" should be an advance. In the real world, the first lawyer who set up a modern kind of international law was a Spanish called Francisco de Vitoria (1492-1546).

Before this advance, when you take a city, it's just the traditional bloodbath, with you as the new prince, the former one having been ripped open by your soldiers...

	07-09-2005 13:57									#8
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quote: Originally posted by LordShiva But what does it mean to "ask" two countries to make peace? Would we be able to threaten them? Bribe them? That could be cool.

In SMAC (Alpha centauri) we already had a way to ask faction to stop attacking another one. Some time (IIRC) the hilarius response was something like "it's the other that evily attack me!" and you have to switch the table to the opposite faction to ask again!

I bet Firaxis can do something like that or smarter for Civ IV.

	08-09-2005 00:39									#9
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What would also be good would be minor civs and the ability to make vassals of them instead of outright annexation.

	08-09-2005 01:16									#10
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Yeah, minor civs, the old dream from the List... And then I mean the original.

	08-09-2005 10:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs Yeah, I think that this idea of cities becoming occupied until a peace treaty is signed is the way to go, but does anyone have any suggestions about how to handle the negotiations regarding the treaty?

It is done quite well in EU. Basically you earn points in the war (cites captured, troops destroyed, relative military strength between factions and so on). During negotiation you spend those points (or AI, if it has better position) and acquire cites, demand for religion change, and so on... You also need to distribute the conquered cites between allies.