07-09-2005 10:13									#31
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It's called facial recognition. There's nothing wrong with that, you know.

	07-09-2005 10:52									#32
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Just got my Hong Kong citizenship card and there was no requirement not to smile.

Interesting card. Has a chip in it that stores electronic thumbprint images.

	07-09-2005 12:13									#33
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Ok, I get your point. Now we don't have to work about terrorists with UK passports. I know I'll sleep easier.

Given the size of Britain's Muslim population, the citizenship of their recent bombers, and the fact that Brits don't need visas to travel to the US, you should sleep easier knowing the Brits are at least trying.

And FYI: the US uses facial recognition software, too. It has already changed our visa photo requirements once (from 3/4 profile to full-face), and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a "no smile" rule in the very near future.

	07-09-2005 12:18									#34
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh If you smile, face recognition software may not work.

Which puts a smile on my face almost immediately.

	07-09-2005 12:20									#35
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara In neither Illinois nor Florida are we allowed to smile for our drivers' licenses.

In Colorado they make sure you aren't smiling by hiring hostile and incompetent people for the DMV.

	07-09-2005 16:22									#36
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That facial recognition software will work more efficiently.

Just a quibble - if people smile and such when the facial recognition software is looking at camera footage, won't it also have trouble identifying them?

	07-09-2005 16:27									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Given the size of Britain's Muslim population, the citizenship of their recent bombers, and the fact that Brits don't need visas to travel to the US, you should sleep easier knowing the Brits are at least trying. And FYI: the US uses facial recognition software, too. It has already changed our visa photo requirements once (from 3/4 profile to full-face), and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a "no smile" rule in the very near future.

Probably. We're co-ordinating with you guys quite a lot on this stuff so that our passports work with your scanners and vice versa.

Will come to the US sooner rather than later I expect.

	07-09-2005 16:28									#38
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I think the whole point is that the passport should be real then. It doesn't stop terrorists from coming in or moving around, but at least it makes it more difficult for terrorist and/or criminals to move around with FAKE passports.

The advantages of that are of course numerous. First of all, we can track people down, and if we know the person, except that his passport is fake, we have basically nothing but a picture IF lucky. And fake name and fake everything. So we got nothing basically to go with, except that picture.

With REAL passport, we have bigger chances of those informations to be correct, even though of course they can be faked. Like it's possible to buy a real passport, with fake info. THose are SOBs to track down. With real SSNs etc.

But the whole idea of passport is, I believe, that you can't re-empt anyone really, except if the person is like celebrity status criminal, but more like you can use it afterwards. Also, of course, if you get a hint before the person is comign in, you can be ready to take them and not let them go through. Other than that, there's really no use to any identification when crossing borders.

	07-09-2005 16:55									#39
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh If you smile, face recognition software may not work.

Then the face-recognition software needs to be improved .

	07-09-2005 17:20									#40
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quote: "When the mouth is open it can make it difficult for facial recognition technology to work effectively."

lesson of the day: FIGHT THE SYSTEM, SMILE!

	07-09-2005 18:42									#41
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I find it hilarious the number of people here that speak out of bothe sides of their mouth.

The government needs to butt out, but they need to be responsible for all things.
Socialist Libertarians?

Idiots.

	07-09-2005 19:44									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Just a quibble - if people smile and such when the facial recognition software is looking at camera footage, won't it also have trouble identifying them?

Yes, but I'm guessing that having a "neutral" image will make it easier to compare to the whole range of expressions than would having an image of a smiling face.

	07-09-2005 19:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I find it hilarious the number of people here that speak out of bothe sides of their mouth. The government needs to butt out, but they need to be responsible for all things. Socialist Libertarians? Idiots.

I only see one idiot here.

	07-09-2005 19:52									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Just got my Hong Kong citizenship card and there was no requirement not to smile. Interesting card. Has a chip in it that stores electronic thumbprint images.

We don't use no stinkin' facial recognition - we use thumb prints instead.

What a bunch of boobs, thinking biometrics is some sort of ultimate security measure.

	07-09-2005 21:01									#45
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For most drivers licenses they don't have to worry about it. Nobody is smiling by the time they wait half the day in those lines.

	07-09-2005 22:02									#46
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We've had to use serious faces on passports in the UK from as long as I've ever had one, which long predates facial-recogition software.

The reason always given was "it's a serious document, not a laughing matter". Everyone, AFAIK, has always accepted it and not complained. I've never ever heard anyone complain about it and I'm amazed to see how amazed you guys are to discover this.

	07-09-2005 22:50									#47
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Maybe that's because most people smile on their IDs over here (France)

	08-09-2005 05:32									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus We've had to use serious faces on passports in the UK from as long as I've ever had one, which long predates facial-recogition software. The reason always given was "it's a serious document, not a laughing matter". Everyone, AFAIK, has always accepted it and not complained. I've never ever heard anyone complain about it and I'm amazed to see how amazed you guys are to discover this.

The theory, I think, is that smiling distorts the face in a way that makes it harder to recognize; comparing a blank expression on a person to the blank experssion on his photo ID is easier than comparing a smiling person's face to a picture of him smiling.

The easiest way to compare faces manually for ID recognition, though, is to look at them upside-down. Great technique for looking exclusively at documents; unfortunately, somewhat less practical in an airport customs line.

	08-09-2005 11:43									#49
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Computers are very bad at doing what we humans do well. We are very bad at what they do well. Computers and humans are pretty much complementary.

Why bother spending zillions of $ in trying to make computers to recognise faces, while you can simply put a person there and do the job 100x better?

	08-09-2005 11:47									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Computers are very bad at doing what we humans do well. We are very bad at what they do well. Computers and humans are pretty much complementary. Why bother spending zillions of $ in trying to make computers to recognise faces, while you can simply put a person there and do the job 100x better?

Please think before posting.

The idea is to match the faces against a database of many thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands of faces.

What kind of person can do that.

	08-09-2005 14:23									#51
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I heard smilling to a US immigration official can get you barred so I don't htink its a problem

	08-09-2005 15:02									#52
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That's only if you wink and grab your crotch while smiling.