07-09-2005 11:27									#1
	Forbidding more than one politics, etc Got spare money?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I cannot seem to get it to work.

I am creating a faction that I would like to limit its SE choices to Police State and Frontier (not allowing Democracy or Fundamentalism) and forbid it from using Green economics.

Is there a method of doing this?

Thanks

	07-09-2005 11:49									#2
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I think it is hardcoded to have only one SE preference and only one SE aversion.

	07-09-2005 14:30									#3
	Re: Forbidding more than one politics, etc Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by doodle_diddle Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I cannot seem to get it to work. I am creating a faction that I would like to limit its SE choices to Police State and Frontier (not allowing Democracy or Fundamentalism) and forbid it from using Green economics. Is there a method of doing this?

First of all: Stupid questions are the ones you don't ask !

I don't know if this will work, but you could try editing the faction profile in the text editor (not the one supplied with the game, just plain old text editing), in the first part you have to add AVERSION, DEMOCRACY, AVERSION, FUNDAMENTALISM
Ore something like that. Please check by looking to the hive.txt (which has aversion to Democracy) and the university.txt (which has aversion to fundamentalism). Use these parts which state their aversion and then copy-paste them into your faction profile.

That's the best I can come up with. If you already tried this, I am sorry I could not help you.

Please let us know how it turned out.

Good luck

	07-09-2005 15:35									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It won't work, however you might make them a little less desirable to AIs, but changing the 3rd value of aversion and preference lines in {faction}.txt - open the file yourself and see, you'll find it pretty easily.

	07-09-2005 21:25									#5
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I tried that Major Guz. Thanks for the suggestion though. I got the idea from a NetworkNode factions that said it limited their Politics to just Frontier. When I tried it with mine, it didn't work so I guess it wouldn't work with their's either.

binTravkin, could you elaborate on your suggestion? Maybe with an example?

Thanks!

	07-09-2005 21:47									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I already expected you'd ask..

The Hive.txt file (important lines bolded):

code:
#HIVE
Human Hive, The Despot, Hive, M, 1, Yang, M,  1,  1, 0, 1, 0,
  TECH, DocLoy, FACILITY, 4, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, --ECONOMY, IMMUNITY, EFFIC
  Politics, Police State, POLICE
  Politics, Democratic, nil

code:
  Politics, Police State, POLICE
  Politics, Democratic, GROWTH

code:
  Politics, Police State, POLICE
  Economics, Green, GROWTH

	07-09-2005 22:04									#7
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I'm having a problem with the Morganites in SMAniaC.

Private/Free Trade economies come available later than Private/Protectionist economics, so I'd want Morgan to run Private/Protectionist until Free Trade becomes available. That's why I've set their preferences & aversions to this:

Economics, Private/Free Trade, ECONOMY
Economics, Planned, nil

Morgan refuses to run Protectionist though, and rather prefers Subsistence economy, even though it has a lower ECONOMY value. Any idea what I could do?

Here's the economics line of my SE system:

Subsistence, None,
Private/Free Trade, PlaEcon, +++ECONOMY, +RESEARCH, -TALENT, --INDUSTRY, -SUPPORT
Planned, Algor, ++GROWTH, +INDUSTRY, --EFFIC
Private/Protectionist, IndEcon, ++ECONOMY, -TALENT, -INDUSTRY, -SUPPORT

	07-09-2005 22:19									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I would suggest replacing the Private/Free Trade line with something else. Since he goes for Economy, he'll switch to Free Trade anyway due to the Economy value, but I think there's more chance he'll take Private/Protectionist first if he comes to it without being 'eager' for Free Trade.

	07-09-2005 22:26									#9
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Hmm, yeah...
I could switch his preference to Plutocrat.
The drawback would of course be that Morgan won't be pissed off anymore if you run Planned, and that running Plutocrat would become even more attractive.

	07-09-2005 22:28									#10
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Perhaps he will be 'pissed off' later ingame then, when he is in a stronger position and can make a harder fist? Or perhaps not, seeing that you put an extra -1 support in the Free Trade line.

	07-09-2005 22:36									#11
	Got spare money?

Thanks for the example. That cleared everything up. I didn't know that you could put something in the third field for aversion.

Future Society, Thought Control, POLICE
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

So this will make them choose police state, avoid Free Market and Green and not allow Democracy and when they get a future society, they will choose Thought Control. Right?

	07-09-2005 22:57									#12
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It *might* be that with those preferences in a war he will switch to Fundamentalism.

	07-09-2005 23:46									#13
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Yeah I thought of that GeoModder but my faction is totally against Democracy and Planet so I don't want him going Green and it seems the only way to limit that is by making him avoid PLANET. If he turns fundy I guess that is okay. The faction is called the Oppressors and religion has had its fair share of oppression! LOL

	08-09-2005 12:41									#14
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Maniac, have you noticed that your desired SE stands in the 'Green' slot?
Morgan is thinking it's 'Green' if you don't point him to take it (give him a bonus in 'opinion' about it):

code:
Economics, Private/Free Trade, ECONOMY
Economics, Planned, INDUSTRY

code:
Future Society, Thought Control, POLICE
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

code:
nil, nil, POLICE
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

code:
Politics, Police State, POLICE
nil, nil, PLANET

	09-09-2005 07:19									#15
	Suffering from ads?

True, but when a person plays the faction, they can choose Democracy which I don't want them to. Before I changed it I had

Future Society, Thought Control, INDUSTRY
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

Is this better?

	09-09-2005 17:12									#16
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This would make an AI go:

?*/FM**/Wealth/Thought Control

* - means it will mostly be taking default option, but Fundy at wartime.

** - It will take FM because -3 planet which translates into "+3" 'opinion'.


If you want the AI to take Police State and also not FM, you need:

code:
Economics, Planned, POLICE
Politics, Democracy, nil

	09-09-2005 17:33									#17
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Why would it take FM instead of Planned when FM doesn't give any benefit to Industry but Planned does? Would it do it simply because of my Planet aversion?

I can see why it would take Wealth because it gives a +1 bonus to Industry.

How about this?

Future Society, Thought Control, INDUSTRY
Politics, Democracy, ECONOMY

If I understand correctly, the AI will pick Planned, Police State (possibly Fundy), Knowledge or Wealth, and Thought Control.

I am not sure about the Knowledge or Wealth because both are at 0 level for Benefit/Aversion. How will it decide?

Thanks for your help.

	12-09-2005 18:05									#18
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Thanks for the Morganic advice

	13-09-2005 11:41									#19
	Remove this text

quote: Why would it take FM instead of Planned when FM doesn't give any benefit to Industry but Planned does? Would it do it simply because of my Planet aversion?

Planned = +1 INDUSTRY
FM = -3 PLANET

Your preference is INDUSTRY, so Planned recieves +1 'opinion'.
Your aversion is PLANET, so FM recieves -(-3) = +3 'opinion'.
Which one is bigger?

quote: Economics, Planned, POLICE Politics, Democracy, nil

= Police State/Planned/Thought Control/Knowledge|Power*

*Depends on agressiveness - bigger(1) = power, smaller(-1 or 0) = knowledge, wartime = power

quote: Future Society, Thought Control, INDUSTRY Politics, Democracy, ECONOMY

=indifferent*/Planned/Thought Control/Knowledge**

*you disable Democracy - AIs favourite choice in peacetime, so it will most probably take default at peace and Fundy at wartime.

**Power has -2 INDUSTRY, thus -2 'opinion'

Your last example is kinda 'makeshift' because it makes the pushes to incorrect directions.
Few hints:

1.Make aversions/preferences on SE effect a common choice.
It is always better to put a INDUSTRY bonus if you want to get Planned/Eudaimonic/Wealth or ECONOMY if FM/Eudaimonic/Welath than anything else.
That way you shoot 3 ducks with one shot.
Your aversion of economy does very little to improve the situation in this particular case.

2.Do not use Future Societie's as preferred ones -they're too far in game to not be a wasted slot.


Please compare my example and yours. I think mine fits better for:
1.Avoiding Demo
2.Avoiding Green
3.Going for Police and Though Control
And you get one free aversion slot in case you want to put a stronger emphasis on something, as I stated:

quote: * - depends on how agressive it is and on phase of the game, but if you want to alter it, use the free aversion slot.

quote: Thanks for the Morganic advice

No prob.
ONe day I'll write guide on SMAC SE definitions as it seems I've the only one who've tested them thoroughly and know who is who..

	14-09-2005 01:50									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: =indifferent*/Planned/Thought Control/Knowledge** *you disable Democracy - AIs favourite choice in peacetime, so it will most probably take default at peace and Fundy at wartime. **Power has -2 INDUSTRY, thus -2 'opinion' Your last example is kinda 'makeshift' because it makes the pushes to incorrect directions.

Actually, this is the closest to what I actually want which is a researching industrial warmonger.

Also, does the AI factor in support as a detriment to INDUSTRY? I assume not since you list it as indifferent. I mean, if you are a police state, you can support more troops and it doesn't hinder your production whereas a demo and fundy, it does.

	14-09-2005 05:30									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

While anything is possible, the AI is dumb, and I wouldn't expect it to link the effects of support and industry.

	14-09-2005 11:25									#22
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There are only a couple of things AI rates and they're INDUSTRY, ECONOMY and the 'green', 'thought control' and 'fundy' SE choices.

INDUSTRY is AIs early game objective, but it is far weaker than your set of preferences/aversions.

ECONOMY is late game (meaning over 2200) objective, and is also far weaker than your set of preferences/aversions

The 3 SE slots I named AI links to being:
'green' - 'lotsa fungus around' choice
'fundy' and 'thought control' - 'Im at war' choices

The example above where Maniac didn't have his AI acting for his liking was a good one.
The Morganic AI avoided the 'green' slot even if the choice there is not 'Green' anymore but something called different and with different effects.

This is also far weaker than your preference/aversion set.

	15-09-2005 01:38									#23
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So the conclusion is the AI is very stupid. I can't wait until Civ IV is modded to SMAX. I hope thier AI will be better.

Thanks for your advice.

	15-09-2005 03:08									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by binTravkin The 3 SE slots I named AI links to being: 'green' - 'lotsa fungus around' choice 'fundy' and 'thought control' - 'Im at war' choices The example above where Maniac didn't have his AI acting for his liking was a good one. The Morganic AI avoided the 'green' slot even if the choice there is not 'Green' anymore but something called different and with different effects.

Actually as far as I can tell from what I've seen the AI do, I doubt that Private/Protectionist being on Green economics' previous spot has anything to do with it. While Morgan refused to run Private/Protectionist, all other factions capable of getting +1 energy/square are more than willing to run Protectionist, and the amount of fungus around doesn't seem to matter.

Likewise, in war a Unitary Police State (placed on the Police State spot) seems to be the preferred AI politics choice, and not Federal Police State, placed on Fundy's spot.

Regarding the Future Society line, replaced in SMAniAC with the Society line with options Cybernetic, Anthropocentric & Green, the AI often seems to prefer Anthropocentric (+2 Growth, +1 Morale, -3 Planet) in both war and peace.

	15-09-2005 12:52									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, the 'tilt' done by the 'spot thoughts' of an AI is very small as an effect, but I think at least SmackSim once confrmed that AIs with lotsa fungus around are somehow attracted to the rightmost slot in the Economics field.

Your SE values are big enough for most factions to ignore this effect, Morgan, however, needed a little push to take it.

	18-09-2005 03:06									#26
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder I would suggest replacing the Private/Free Trade line with something else. Since he goes for Economy, he'll switch to Free Trade anyway due to the Economy value, but I think there's more chance he'll take Private/Protectionist first if he comes to it without being 'eager' for Free Trade.

I switched Morgan's preference to Plutocrat and now he runs Private/Protectionist.