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Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 16:22
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Persian order in Babylon? Remove this text

US forces should take a lesson from the Persian kings

Simon Tisdall
Wednesday September 7, 2005
The Guardian


Present-day US fears about an Iranian-dominated super-state embracing southern Iraq and the Gulf have a basis in historical fact, according to an exhibition charting the exploits of Cyrus the Great, founder of the Persian empire, which opens at the British Museum on Friday.
Cyrus and his successors, Xerxes and Darius, created the world's first superpower in 550BC, ruling territories from central Asia and the Indus valley to Arabia and north Africa. But the Persian kings appear to have had better luck in Iraq than President George Bush has had.

When Persian forces overran Babylonia in 539BC, the inhabitants surrendered peacefully. According to contemporary accounts, Cyrus was greeted as a liberator because of his just policies - and tough attitude to terrorists.
"When I entered Babylon I did not allow anyone to terrorise the land," a text known as the Cyrus Cylinder quotes him as saying. "I strove for peace in Babylon and all other sacred cities. I put an end to the inhabitants' misfortune."

John Curtis, the curator of the exhibition, Forgotten Empire: the World of Ancient Persia, said: "Cyrus was no despot, more an enlightened autocrat. He was surprisingly tolerant. He made no attempt to establish a state religion. He is said to have freed the Jews from captivity, allowing them to return to Jerusalem."

There are other historical echoes for modern-day empires to ponder. Even the poorest subject had the right to a royal audience, Mr Curtis said. The Persians developed an early form of federalism, governing through client rulers and provincial governors, known as satraps. Darius built a canal linking the Nile to the Red Sea - a forerunner of the Suez canal; introduced the first dollar-like global currency, the darik, and tax and communications systems; and created an empire-wide postal service whose "we always deliver" motto and emblem were supposedly imitated more than 2,000 years later by the US Mail and Pony Express.

Technologically, the Persian military machine was state of the art. Its elite troops were known as the Immortals, equivalent to US special forces. And pre-emptive wars and regime change were all in a day's work for the great kings.

The pre-Islamic Achaemenid dynasty was toppled by Alexander the Great, who burned the great palaces of Persepolis, some of whose surviving artefacts are on show for the first time at the British Museum. But its influence was long-lasting, Mr Curtis said. Christianity, Judaism and Islam were all influenced to a discernible extent by the original Zoroastrian concept, adopted by Mr Bush's "war on terror", of perpetual struggle between good and evil.

Despite the aspersions of Greek historians, the Persians' political, administrative, cultural and artistic legacy formed "a linear link" via the Greeks and Romans to subsequent European and north American civilisation, he added.

"It was very advanced, very sophisticated, progressive and tolerant, although not democratic," Mr Curtis said. "It was the largest empire at that time."

The organisers say the exhibition "challenges the myths that have portrayed the Persians as despotic and ruthless people" and aims to promote greater understanding of the Middle East, where modern Iran is seen, at least in the west, as a potential threat.

An Iranian diplomat admitted that Tehran's image, tarnished by anti-western ayatollahs, US hostility and nuclear tensions which may climax later this month, could be better.

"There is a lot of ignorance about Iran," the diplomat said. "We hope that the exhibition will give a different perspective."

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 16:29
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm gonna check this exhibition out. Maybe I'll see an Immortal!

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 16:30
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Sorry - didn't post the URL for the article :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldbrie...1564039,00.html

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 16:36 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Got spare money?

What exactly is the point of this article?

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 16:40
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Iraq has been an Iranian dependency for much of its history. Point?

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 19:25
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
What exactly is the point of this article?



It's a tongue in cheek linkage of the current state of affairs in the Middle and Near East with ancient empires and a long-awaited exhibition of treasures from Persepolis at the British Museum.


They're going to get the Cyrus cylinder on loan, apparently.

http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/cyrus.html


quote:
Iraq has been an Iranian dependency for much of its history.


Last Conformist


Difficult, since 'Iraq' is a post-WWI creation.


Parts of the state now called Iraq have been parcelled up between Safavids, Ottomans, Abbasids, Ummayyads, Sassanids, Babylonians, Medes, over the centuries- accounting for its stunning archaeological treasures.

Last edited by molly bloom on 07-09-2005 at 19:40

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 19:25
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monkspider, is that you?

Proteus_MST is offline Proteus_MST
Prince

Dec 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
I'm gonna check this exhibition out. Maybe I'll see an Immortal!


They were shown to be very mortal as they were slaughtered by spartan hoplites at the thermopyles
(at least until the persians discovered a way around the spartan fortifications)

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 19:42
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@molly bloom: As you perfectly well know, I meant Iraq as a geographical area.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 20:10
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He just made that post because it opened to him an opportunity to make a comment about the artfulness of a region.

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 20:36 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

Ahem.. do you actually know what happened to the Persian Kingdom after Cyrus died?






psst! Invasions of Greece by Darius (1st) and Xerxes (2nd) and all that stuff- I don´t think so

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
@molly bloom: As you perfectly well know, I meant Iraq as a geographical area.



I know nothing of the sort- your mind is a closed book to me, its secrets cached and concealed, wrapped within an enigma, inside a puzzle, secreted within a mystery.

quote:
He just made that post because it opened to him an opportunity to make a comment about the artfulness of a region.


Ecthy


Partly true- I had a friend who studied the Assyrians at university and who went on archaeological digs to Iraq, pre Gulf War I.


Imagine his chagrin when they discovered an ancient grave of a Jewish woman, full of gold grave goods, about 11 lbs weight in all, in Iraq, not long after his last trip there.


That and I've been studying the Sassanids and Safavids recently.


Persia

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 20:57 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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’my son ask for thyself another
Kingdom for that wich I leave
Is too small for thee’
(king philip of macedonia - 339 b.c.)

Near to the east
In a part of ancient greece
In an ancient land called macedonia
Was born a son
To philip of macedon
The legend his name was alexander

At the age of nineteen
He became the macedon king
And he swore to free all of asia minor
By the aegian sea
In 334 b.c.
He utterly beat the armies of persia

Alexander the great
His name struck fear into hearts of men
Alexander the great
Became a legend ’mongst mortal men

King darius the third
Defeated fled persia
The scythians fell by the river of jaxartes
Then egypt fell to the macedon king as well
And he founded the city called alexandria

By the tigris river
He met king darius again
And crushed him again at the battle of arbela
Entering babylon
And susa treasures he found
Took persepolis the capital of persia

Alexander the great
His name struck fear into hearts of men
Alexander the great
Became a God ’mongst mortal men

A phrygian king had bound a chariot yoke
And alexander cut the ’gordian knot’
And the legend said that who untied the knot
He would become the master of asia

Hellenism he spread far and wide
The macedonian learned mind
Their culture was a western way of life
He paved the way for christianity

Marching on marching on

The battle weary marching side by side
Alexander’s army line by line
They wouldn’t follow him to india
Tired of the combat, pain and the glory

Alexander the great
His name struck fear into hearts of men
Alexander the great
He died of fever in babylon


Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 22:46
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Greek pop musicians with things on their belt that look like genitalia the first instant you look at them

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 22:56 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Are you completely uncivilized?

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 23:16 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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If you guys are interested in Persian history you must read Herodotus Stories, expecially VI-Heratus and VII-Polimnia

And Bereta Eder, Persians used to castrate young greek men in newly conquered lands (like right after the capture of Sardi) and send the young women in "harems" in modern Afghanistan, so you should be against the EVIL Persians

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 07-09-2005 23:46 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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I'm against the evil romanians

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 08-09-2005 00:48 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

llol

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 08-09-2005 00:52
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The Chinese are utterly uncivilised anyway.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:30
  Old Post 08-09-2005 00:54 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

i met a guy asking me directions the other day in broken greek. so he said (of his own) he's from iran then he exclaimed waving his hand in the air persia! persia!. and i said alexander the great! and we both laughed. i think athens pollution is doing bad things to the brain.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 08-09-2005 00:55
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Thanks for the opener, Beijing pollution is even worse no matter how bad yours is.

Sir Og is offline Sir Og
Chieftain
Lurking in Stara Zagora, Bulgaria
Jun 2001
time: 07:30
  Old Post 08-09-2005 01:09
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Full PM-box? Change here!

Iron Maiden

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:30
  Old Post 08-09-2005 11:15
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Bruce Dickinson
Cowbell

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