07-09-2005 22:52									#1
	and why should I pay attention to what the UN says?? Support Apolyton

(AP) Unless drastic measures are implemented, the world will not meet its targets for reducing poverty and millions of people will die needlessly during the next decade, according to a major U.N. report released Wednesday.

but...

UNITED NATIONS — Kofi Annan on Wednesday called the latest report on the U.N. Oil-for-Food (search) program "embarrassing" as it slammed the secretary-general, his deputy and the Security Council for allowing Saddam Hussein to cheat $10.2 billion from the humanitarian operation.

and why should I pay attention to what the UN says??

	07-09-2005 22:56									#2
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Why should I pay attention to what you say?

*plonk*

	07-09-2005 23:01									#3
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because you can't help yourself - the great MWHC has been here!

	07-09-2005 23:11									#4
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Depends on whether you support a Hobbesian world of international relations or a world with a modest system of international laws and dialogue.

	07-09-2005 23:19									#5
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You shouldn't MWHC. The UN is better than the LON but still a failure. Maybe we can get it right the next time.

	07-09-2005 23:22									#6
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The UN is a joke.

	07-09-2005 23:29									#7
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How come people that are upset by UN corruption aren't upset by Bush corruption?

I mean... UN corruption doesn't affect most people! Sure UN is corrupt, but I don't give a flying **** because it doesn't affect me that much.

	07-09-2005 23:43									#8
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Search the threads. I dog out Bush just as much. It's just so easy to dog out bush... it's kinda no fun anymore.

	07-09-2005 23:44									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sava How come people that are upset by UN corruption aren't upset by Bush corruption? I mean... UN corruption doesn't affect most people! Sure UN is corrupt, but I don't give a flying **** because it doesn't affect me that much.

As far as the UN is concern, I just ignore it pretty much.

	07-09-2005 23:50									#10
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I'm not bothered so much by UN corruption. It is the incompetence and lack of standards that annoy me.

	08-09-2005 00:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV Search the threads. I dog out Bush just as much. It's just so easy to dog out bush... it's kinda no fun anymore.

okay then... just making sure...

because most of the anti-UN people I see here are pro-bush

	08-09-2005 00:15									#12
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I personally like to transfer Hobbes' social theory to the inernationa level. But then, that doesn't really answer MWHC's question.

Why do we care what our government says (obey laws at least)? Because they're the strongest ones around (AND we believe in a legal social system, but that still has to do with the individual perception of security, not with idealism). With the United States alone more powerful than probably the rest of the world altogether, no need for any of you to care for the United Nations.

The international legal system only works properly if it's in the best interest of every individual state, especially of the strongest. We must find a system that suits the great powers of today and tomorrow, not one that appears most flourishing to pacifists and greens

	08-09-2005 00:31									#13
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If you don't like UN, improve it from within

	08-09-2005 00:33									#14
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If you don't like UN and are strong enough to ignore it, ignore it!

And this isn't immoral. It's simply an amoral matter, as following your own self-interest usually is. Only when it comes to social interaction does self-interest see a slight weakening, but he who gives up himself first is usually the first to fall. See Poland and their Republican constitution while being stuck in between of three hungry great powers.

USA (practically)

UN (ideally)

Pacifists, vegetarians, other whiners

	08-09-2005 00:34									#15
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UN is a joke.

	08-09-2005 00:36									#16
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Wasn't it a US idea?

	08-09-2005 00:41									#17
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And the whining about the evil UN is boring. The UN is as good as the members make it.

	08-09-2005 00:42									#18
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It isn't completely worthless but it gets bossed around too much.

	08-09-2005 00:43									#19
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Noone whines about the UN. German pacifists who enjoyed the 90s for too long whine about how the UN is getting weaker due to the evil US.

It having been a US idea had a practical reason: the idea to prevent major conventional wars between ideologically opposed great powers. Would be interesting to examien how its importance decreased 1. during and 2. after the cold war. Probably has to do with the growing nuclear deterrence and all.

	08-09-2005 00:59									#20
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GePap (IIRC, could be wrong) posted a while back an interesting article how the UN's importance is far from decreasing. Surprisingly it did not attract many replies. I think I posted it too since I hadn't seen the first thread on it

	08-09-2005 01:04									#21
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The UN was probably more of an FDR idea than a US idea. Think LON 1919.

	08-09-2005 01:06									#22
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Beb, it's your turn in the history quiz.