10-09-2005 01:16									#1
	RTCiv Put an end to popups!

Looks like with the modability of the Civ IV there is a chance that may be real time game mods are possible. So I would like to discuss what Civ in real time or RTCiv could look like.

What I do not RTCiv to become is RON, which is more or less typically RTS game. What I want to come up is civ type of gameplay but in real time. Do you think it is possible? What do you think can be done better in RTCiv that can not be done in TBS? What ideas do you have? Should we start collecting ideas for potential mod?

	10-09-2005 01:45									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Doesn't sound like a good idea.

	10-09-2005 01:46									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Vade retro satana!

	10-09-2005 03:18									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Very bad idea. It would have to be on the scale of 5 cities at most, otherwise its a clickfest.

To be quite honest, I'm worried enough about simultaneous turns.

	10-09-2005 09:47									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

modding in RT combat sounds crazy, that doesn't seem like it would be easy, or small. why mix genres anyways?

	10-09-2005 10:02									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Senethro Very bad idea. It would have to be on the scale of 5 cities at most, otherwise its a clickfest. To be quite honest, I'm worried enough about simultaneous turns.

Bad idea indeed. To me, at least.

I don't want to play by reflex! I like to take my time, eat a sandwich, get a smoke, come back and see... Why I would like to ruin all the fun?

	10-09-2005 10:15									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: [SIZE=1] Why mix genres anyways?

To have something new. Why most RTS now have elements of RPG? Why can't Civ game have RT component?

As I see, I am in minority, but I do want to see the civ type game in RT, because our life IS in RT! There are excellent RT city building games. Why can't we have good Civ building game?

EU is in RT, do you think it is a bad game? Is it a click fest?

The combat can be slow and expensive, thus it will happen rare and will not be a click fest.

I also think that the problem of large number of cites can be avoided - just put governor or have a way to unite several cities into a region and work with the regions, not individual cites.

I understand that if you directly copy the civ mechanics into RT, that would suck, but this is why I have this topic. What do you think has to be changed in order to have enjoyable game in RT?

	10-09-2005 19:01									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

A gamespeed that is adaptable on the fly, as well as a liberal use of the pause option.

	10-09-2005 19:06									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Good idea, MxM. Something like Paradox games (Europa Universalis, Victoria...) would be perfect.

	10-09-2005 19:42									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I love Civ. I love RTS. But RTCiv would suck.

	10-09-2005 20:22									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'll keep an open mind, but I can't think of anything to aid your development.

	10-09-2005 20:50									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: As I see, I am in minority, but I do want to see the civ type game in RT, because our life IS in RT! There are excellent RT city building games. Why can't we have good Civ building game?

good point,but life happans at a slow enough speed that strategy can be created and its not a clickfest(or for some people it is anyhow)

its just when you can build to the modern age in 30 minutes something is wacked with the speed.

quote: Something like Paradox games (Europa Universalis, Victoria...) would be perfect.

	11-09-2005 03:29									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

MxM was only putting an idea for a mod forth.

If you don't like it, ignore the mod. Constant "no way should civ be RTS" posts seem to do nothing but clutter this thread.

He didn't ask if anyone thinks civ4 should be RTS, just wanted to talk to those interested in such a mod.

sheesh.

	11-09-2005 11:23									#14
	Remove this text

make a post and they will come (good & bad replies)

with all the members here, there is bound to be some macthes in ideas

	11-09-2005 18:21									#15
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 good point,but life happans at a slow enough speed that strategy can be created and its not a clickfest(or for some people it is anyhow)

itd be nice if u had all the time u needed to review ur strategy in football and in frontlines.

	11-09-2005 21:59									#16
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: itd be nice if u had all the time u needed to review ur strategy in football and in frontlines.

you do. wars dont happan in thirty minutes like in a game. i know the crunch is on,but compared to playing RTS games,those guys can lean back and smell the roses.you have to make descisions in RTS NOW not then.

	12-09-2005 12:32									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by MxM Why can't Civ game have RT component?

Which elements of Civ are better handled in a "real time" instead of turn based manner?

quote: Originally posted by MxM As I see, I am in minority, but I do want to see the civ type game in RT, because our life IS in RT!

Hm, no. We are in real time. All these so called "real time" games are actually in simulated time. Real time is one second of game time corresponds to one second of our time. As you see, these games have nothing to do with real time. In fact, they are better called "continuous flow."

quote: Originally posted by MxM There are excellent RT city building games. Why can't we have good Civ building game?

Because of the time scale? Civ spans thousands of years, and the time in the game is nonlinear - it is very compressed in the beginning and much less so later. This sort of setting can't be fitted on a "real time" model.

	12-09-2005 13:02									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aggggghhh !! Choke, gasp, gulp !!

Heresy -now where did I put my trusty stake ?-, to the bonfire with him I say !

Seriously, if it's for a one-time-in-a-life-must-be-mod, well ok. Other than that, we want Civ to remain TBS and RON can remain RTS for ever.

	12-09-2005 13:34									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why can't Civ be RTS? Life set no rule against it.

I'm sure there are people who would like an RTCiv; whether it be playable or not.

Infact I think it is possible to do, just that the game would have to be simplified a lot and many things made automatic.

You could set it up so that you are like a manager of a sports team, you set them up, set the battleplans, and watch your men do all the work. It would be quite realistic.

	12-09-2005 14:33									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It would stop to be Civ, that's why. Real Time Civ would be the same nonsense as Real Time Chess, and making Civ an RTS would be equivalent to making AOE a TBS.

I do not deny, that it could have its audience, however instead of mutilating a TBS into a RTS they would be better off choosing RON or AOE right off the bat. It's not like the market is lacking RTS games.

	12-09-2005 15:18									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Not lacking, but with the power of Civ4's modability, you could possibly make a great RTS, one that is not available.

	12-09-2005 15:41									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 you do. wars dont happan in thirty minutes like in a game. i know the crunch is on,but compared to playing RTS games,those guys can lean back and smell the roses.you have to make descisions in RTS NOW not then.

i make my decision before i even start playing based on map, type of game and my opponent (if i know him). And I have all the time to decide how to formulate a strategy, backup strategy and anti-strategy to my opponent's while smelling the rose.

	12-09-2005 20:23									#23
	Got spare money?

Snoopy: "simplification", "automatic", "let the men (=CPU) do all the work" = this is not Civilization.

Civilization is about planning ahead carefully, thinking, executing the plans etc...

I'm sure it can be done, but then it wouldn't be Civ. If you put your workers or formers on automatic that just kills your turn-advantage over the computer.

I believe we shouldn't mix TBS and RTS regarding Civ.

Mind you, I think Creative Assembly did a wonderful job blending both genres in RTW. But then RTW even at Vey hard/very hard is very easy compared to a Deity or Sid game at Civ.

It's all about planning your moves. I'd never trust the computer to think for me.

That's where the fun lies, at least for me.

Last edited by Drakan on 13-09-2005 at 02:58

	12-09-2005 20:31									#24
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Platypus Rex make a post and they will come (good & bad replies)

Soooooo true...

But, of course, if you want to make a game like Age of Empires, but a little more... err... civ-like, be my guest.
As I always do, I'll download it and play, just to give a try. I've been done this with almost every mod posted here in Apolyton for the last three years...

	12-09-2005 22:35									#25
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Which elements of Civ are better handled in a "real time" instead of turn based manner?

Wars, and in general all unit movement, would be better in a Paradox-like system. It's really silly that moving a unit a few tiles supposedly takes a whole year, and that you can build a cathedral in the turns it would need to move from Paris to Moscow in a Napoleon scenario, to give a couple examples.

	12-09-2005 22:51									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Maybe in SIngle Player you could mix simultanous TBCiv with RTCiv.
You (and the Computer) prepare their turns like in an TBS-Game (with simultaneous turns) and then they are simultanous executed. And you see the execution of the turns slowly unfold (for example seeing military units move to their destination and so on).
But between the turns (i.e. at the time where you see the turn unfold) you can decide to stop the action (you have a limited numbers of opportunities for these stops, for example 2-3 per between-turn) for example because you see the computer move into your borders and certain actions by the computer also trigger messages (for example enemy units trespoassing on your borders) where you can decide if you wish to stop the execution turn (as long as you have stops available).
These stops would mean that (by cliking on it) you are shown how much MP the unit would still have available and you can change the destination of the unit (of course units which didn´t move till the stop also loose MPs for every fraction of the between-turn which has passed till the stop)

So you would have both, the planning of the TBS but also RT-elements

	12-09-2005 22:57									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

A RTS Civ can be good if done like Paradox's games, but I doubt it will be possible to make Civ anything like their games. Besides, Civ is Civ and EU is EU, I don't think it's preferable to try to make Civ EU. I dunno...

	13-09-2005 01:21									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Not lacking, but with the power of Civ4's modability, you could possibly make a great RTS, one that is not available.

Great RTS games aren't made by first writing a TBS game and then modding it.

If this is about making an RT mod to showcase the power of the modding framwork and as a technical/cool-and-unique factor exercise, then great. But I don't think we should harbour any intentions of making an even halfway decent and playable RTS game.

Prove me wrong and I'll eat the leftovers of Yin's cardboard box.

	13-09-2005 01:40									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Prove me wrong and I'll eat the leftovers of Yin's cardboard box.

i agree. changing a games genre instead of using an opensource game in that genre is silly,and will require much more effort.imho

while it could be done....why??i keep seeing people advocating switching cIV into FPS or RTS....

	13-09-2005 02:16									#30
	Suffering from ads?

civ FPS?

now THAT would be awesome

Attachment: civstrike.jpg
This has been downloaded 48 time(s).