13-09-2005 19:56									#31
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quote: What would you do with those who can't/won't be assimilated?

What do you mean by "can't"?

If people want to be assimilated they will be assimilated. I am fully willing to give 1st gen people over 20 a break, but noone else. Then, it's the door for them.

	13-09-2005 20:38									#32
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion - they work the hardest jobs - they have the lowest pays - they have no benefits - they are hated and despised Obviously victims of society. What have YOU done to integrate Albanians into Greek society?

Bull. There are other immigrants that have done much more. However no other immigrant nationality has produced such crime.

	13-09-2005 20:40									#33
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up to now elections in albania mean men with guns forcing people to vote for who they choose. this is the background of the porrest country of europe, wholy isolated for decades and a society wholly collapsed. add to that that they dont like greece. and you get the result
that i wrong some of them, sure. but that samaras policy of openign the borders was wrong no question

	13-09-2005 21:50									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Bereta_Eder Bull. There are other immigrants that have done much more. However no other immigrant nationality has produced such crime.

It's because they are neglected and disenfranchized. Almost a million Albanians in 10 million Greece, and how many are company managers? University professors? Politicians? Isn't that a little suspicious to you?

	13-09-2005 21:53									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Az quote: What would you do with those who can't/won't be assimilated? Then, it's the door for them.

It's not against the law to be unassimilated.

	13-09-2005 21:54									#36
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion It's because they are neglected and disenfranchized. Almost a million Albanians in 10 million Greece, and how many are company managers? University professors? Politicians? Isn't that a little suspicious to you?

because we all know Albania is the center of knowledge and education in Europe

	13-09-2005 21:58									#37
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quote: It's not against the law to be unassimilated.

Then change the law.

quote: To preserve Greek racial purity mostly.

*claxon*
Oxymoron alert.

	13-09-2005 22:08									#38
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quote: Then change the law.

How would you formulate the article of the law that says how to distinguish assimilated from partially assimilated from unassimilated?

	13-09-2005 22:18									#39
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A little albanian goes to school. so they ask him his name. he says mehmed
"none of thismehmed sillyness, we'll call you niko"
"ok"
so the boy goes home and the father asks him "how was your day at school mehmed"
"im not mehmed. i'm niko"
"what? niko and bullshit" so he beats him up
next day at school the teacher asks him
"my god niko what happened to you?"
"oh teacher... dont ask. i got meddled up with some damn albanians"

	13-09-2005 22:32									#40
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@paiktis

quote: How would you formulate the article of the law that says how to distinguish assimilated from partially assimilated from unassimilated?

You make a shitload of tests about life, history, and laws. You make immigrants go to education centers, and educate their children together with the children of the locals, while immersing the children in local life.

Judaism has a proven formula for it. In Israel, I want to apply it, while replacing the religious components of it with secular ones.

	13-09-2005 22:33									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sava because we all know Albania is the center of knowledge and education in Europe

http://www.academyofsciences.net/

	13-09-2005 22:35									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Az @paiktis quote: How would you formulate the article of the law that says how to distinguish assimilated from partially assimilated from unassimilated? You make a shitload of tests about life, history, and laws. You make immigrants go to education centers, and educate their children together with the children of the locals, while immersing the children in local life. Judaism has a proven formula for it. In Israel, I want to apply it, while replacing the religious components of it with secular ones.

Exactly, judaism has a proven formula - for the opposite. If the assimilation is willing, then no reeducation camps are needed, if on the other hand it is not voluntary, then, as judaism shows, it will not happen short of taking children away from parents completely, which is out of the question.

	13-09-2005 22:35									#43
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http://www.academyofsciences.net/in...nuclear-physics

	13-09-2005 22:37									#44
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quote: Exactly, judaism has a proven formula - for the opposite. If the assimilation is willing, then no reeducation camps are needed, if on the other hand it is not voluntary, then, as judaism shows, it will not happen short of taking children away from parents completely, which is out of the question.

Oh but if you make the assimilation prerequisite to immigration into the country - problem solved.

And you don't have to take children from their parents.

	13-09-2005 22:37									#45
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There you go. They're like two weeks from The Bomb. Paiktis, when you glow in the dark remember you heard it here first

	13-09-2005 22:39									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Az Oh but if you make the assimilation prerequisite to immigration into the country - problem solved.

And Nobel earned, since you have to break quite a few laws of physics in the process

	13-09-2005 22:41									#48
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Paiktis, is there a mosque anywhere in Athens?

	13-09-2005 22:44									#49
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quote: And Nobel earned, since you have to break quite a few laws of physics in the process

What, 2nd law of Thermodynamics?

Seriously, that's just . With the fence&wall complete, we'll have the border sealed as tight as we want it to be.

Europe could do the same if they wanted to.

	13-09-2005 22:57									#50
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Az, I was talking about the fact that you can't "make the assimilation prerequisite to immigration into the country" because you can't assimilate people before you let them in. This would require that they are physically outside of the country, while spiritually being inside and assimilating or a similar remarkable feat which would earn you a Nobel if you could make it happen

	13-09-2005 23:07									#51
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Interesting, this site claims that Christian Albanians played a large role in liberating Greece from Ottomans...

quote: Autochthone Arvanites from Greece(Arvanit-es means Albanian-s in Greek),many of them from Suli region. When the modern Greek state was formed, the Albanian-speaking population and its language were called Albanian, even if those Christian Albanians were considered an integral part of the Greek nation and had played a decisive role in the War of Independence between 1821-1828 (Bartholdy, 1993; Bickford-Smith, 1993: 47; Embeirikos, 1994; Vakalopoulos, 1994:243-249). However, the policy of the new Greek state was to Hellenize all the non-Greek speaking Orthodox populations within its, then limited, territory as well as in the territories of Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace and Asia Minor still under Ottoman rule, which were though considered as part of Greek irredenta. As elsewhere in Europe, army and education were the most effective mechanisms of Hellenization, assisted by the judiciary system ready to denounce and punish all forms of behavior inconsistent with the state’s nationalist culture Kitromilidis, 1990:38; Kollias, 1994. We know that more than 60% of today’s Greek surnames can bi trace back to today’s Albanian surnames. We don’t know yet for origin of ancient Greek surnames!

	13-09-2005 23:11									#52
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It says that first they fought the Ottomans, and then Greek Helenization program...

http://grafikshqip.com/FotoAlbumi/d...tup&cat=3&pos=7

quote: Suliots in Fight against Hellen Colonization "Suliots in Fight against Hellen Colonization".Athens, National Gallery-Alexandros Soutzos Museum

This is the first time I read about this, so I won't make any judgement about authencity of the claims.

	13-09-2005 23:12									#53
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You let them in under the precondition that they'll go through the assimilation course. If they pass the course, they stay, if they don't they don't.

	13-09-2005 23:19									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Az You let them in under the precondition that they'll go through the assimilation course. If they pass the course, they stay, if they don't they don't.

All courses can be passed and a distinct culture can still be kept.

What you are saying is basically that if someone passes a test of knowing some law, he is going to respect that law in the future. Doesn't follow.

	13-09-2005 23:27									#55
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion http://www.academyofsciences.net/

Yes, an impressive institution it is!!!

	13-09-2005 23:33									#56
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Its full glory is obscured by the trees.

	13-09-2005 23:37									#57
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quote: All courses can be passed and a distinct culture can still be kept. What you are saying is basically that if someone passes a test of knowing some law, he is going to respect that law in the future. Doesn't follow.

But it works. suck on that!

	13-09-2005 23:38									#58
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Besides, you don't measure a scientific institution by the size of its buildings. You measure it by the contributions it made to the sum of human knowledge. And you have to adjust that for wealth. It is quite possible that Albania has more scientific output per dollar of GDP than USA. I'm not saying that it has, but it's possible.

	13-09-2005 23:40									#59
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quote: Its full glory is obscured by the trees.

But I don't doubt that they may have a serious university there

	13-09-2005 23:40									#60
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quote: But it works. suck on that!

It does not!

By the way, I agree with you, assimilation or out. But unlike you I don't see harsh measures required for such policy enforcable in a modern liberal democracy.