10-09-2005 22:30									#1
	Is advertising speech? Suffering from ads?

Here in Hongkong doctors are not allowed to advertise. Recently some doctors want to challenge the restriction on the ground of free speech.

I can't recall seeing doctors in the US and Canda advertise. So it seems that such a restriction also applies there.

More importantly I don't think advertising is speech. Speech is a statement of your position on a particular issue. Advertising serves no such purpose*. So that's not covered by speech.

Besides, if advertising is speech, there wouldn't be such a thing as false advertising.


* I am sure there can be adverts stating a person's position regarding various issues.

	10-09-2005 22:31									#2
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Advertising here is covered under free speech, and yes doctors do advertise.

	10-09-2005 22:32									#3
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Yes there would - I think false advertising would be analogous to libel or slander or somesuch. But I'm sure Imran would know...

	10-09-2005 22:34									#4
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I've heard radio advertisements for emergency rooms on US radio stations.

	10-09-2005 22:43									#5
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quote: I can't recall seeing doctors in the US and Canda advertise. So it seems that such a restriction also applies there.

I hear them all the time on the radio.

	11-09-2005 00:03									#6
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Oh, and advertising is speech. Just because its commercial doesn't make it any less of speech.

But, yes, it does have limits. "False Advertising" is no different than "fraud". You aren't protected from saying things that induce fraud.

	11-09-2005 00:06									#7
	Tired of ads?

yeah, I think advertising is speech. That doesn't stop it from being stupid in most cases.

Last edited by Az on 11-09-2005 at 00:14

	11-09-2005 00:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Theben Advertising here is covered under free speech, and yes doctors do advertise.

How come your advertizing is regulated then? How DARES the government regulate speech?

	11-09-2005 00:15									#9
	Suffering from ads?

Own goal!

	11-09-2005 00:30									#10
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If Ming says it is, then it is. I'm not sure why doctors would need to advertise, but if you mean specialist plastic surgeons, etc, then they do here. Otherwise, it's a case of the government doing national adverts "Go to your GP more often" (aimed mostly at men, I admit), so individual doctors don't have to. Private healthcare companies do, all too much, but then I don't know the system in Hong Kong.

	11-09-2005 00:57									#11
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Yeah, since we only have individual doctors (not connected to a national health care system) they have to advertize for themselves.

	11-09-2005 00:58									#12
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Though most of the advertising I hear is for dentists and eye surgeons.

	11-09-2005 01:14									#13
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Imagine if false advertizing laws applied to political promises.

	11-09-2005 01:29									#14
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Advertising medical services and certain drugs is banned in most developed countries.

You can advertise your hospital to get people to go there to have children and stuff. You just aren't allowed to make medical claims IIRC.

The reason is simple: advertising is so deeply steeped in bullshit, and medical decisions are so important, that it's best if the two are kept apart.

	11-09-2005 01:48									#15
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quote: You just aren't allowed to make medical claims IIRC.

So pharmacuticals aren't allowed to make scientifically supported claims? How do you lot figure out what, say, Viagra does?

	11-09-2005 02:08									#16
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AFAIK, advertising speech is protected slightly less than political speech. But yes, it's still speech.

	11-09-2005 02:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Theben Advertising here is covered under free speech, and yes doctors do advertise.

Not quite. The Supremes have held that commercial speech is not protected by the Constitution.

	11-09-2005 02:20									#18
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Not quite. The Supremes have held that commercial speech is not protected by the Constitution.

Are you on drugs?! The Supremes HAVE said commerical speech is protected. However, as DanS pointed out, it is not as protected as political speech.

That is why you see those lawyer ads. The American Bar Association banned lawyers from advertising. A few lawyers sued and the Supreme Court said their commerical speech is protected, but the bar association can put limits on it, such as not making claims that can't be measured and not making misleading statements.

	11-09-2005 02:36									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: You just aren't allowed to make medical claims IIRC. So pharmacuticals aren't allowed to make scientifically supported claims? How do you lot figure out what, say, Viagra does?

Since Viagra, IIRC, is prescription-only, finding out what it does isn't particularly useful, but what you'd do is getting a copy of the FASS (a registry of approved drugs) and read the description.

Of course, this particular drug has been all over the tabloids, so probably everyone know its basic function.

I'm not sure what the law says, but you in practice only see ads for prescription-free drugs. Hard to see what would be the point in advertizing prescription drugs anyway.

	11-09-2005 02:40									#20
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quote: Hard to see what would be the point in advertizing prescription drugs anyway.

It's so patients can ask their doctors about the drug. Without the advertising the doctor may not mention such a drug to the patient. After all, how many people tell their doctor that they have problems getting it up if they aren't away of a cure for it? Not many, but if there is a solution for it, they may ask questions about Viagra or Cialius, etc.

	11-09-2005 02:47									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Hard to see what would be the point in advertizing prescription drugs anyway. It's so patients can ask their doctors about the drug. Without the advertising the doctor may not mention such a drug to the patient. After all, how many people tell their doctor that they have problems getting it up if they aren't away of a cure for it? Not many, but if there is a solution for it, they may ask questions about Viagra or Cialius, etc.

But people know so little about drugs that it is hopeless. Doctors are experts. Some of them are bad, but generally it is better off if the decisions are left up to the experts. If drug companies advertise, people are probably going to want to nag their doctor for it, even if the doctor knows it won't work or won't work as well as something else.

In our over medicated society we simply do not need more drugs. It's not as if drug companies aren't up to disease mongering to improve sales either.

	11-09-2005 02:49									#22
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Prescription drugs aren't advertised to the general public, but direct to doctors. Ask Dr Strangelove about the incredible drug company freebies he gets offered.

	11-09-2005 02:57									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon But people know so little about drugs that it is hopeless. Doctors are experts. Some of them are bad, but generally it is better off if the decisions are left up to the experts. If drug companies advertise, people are probably going to want to nag their doctor for it, even if the doctor knows it won't work or won't work as well as something else. In our over medicated society we simply do not need more drugs. It's not as if drug companies aren't up to disease mongering to improve sales either.

Why is it hopeless? Patients just ask their doctors about it. The doctors will tell them if they really need it or not. And the doctor will probably try to push his own drugs as well (the ones that he's been given by the pharma companies). It allows patients to be a bit more comfortable to be talking about ailments. Most patients just don't know that there are things that can fix their problems (and so they don't tell their doctors about things like acid reflux or impotence).

	11-09-2005 03:20									#24
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quote: Why is it hopeless? Patients just ask their doctors about it. The doctors will tell them if they really need it or not. And the doctor will probably try to push his own drugs as well (the ones that he's been given by the pharma companies

The second is something else that needs to be stamped out. As for the first, people will ask their doctors about it and then change doctors to the ones that will pander to their advertising induced prejudices.

Medicine is a science, not a consumer product like hats, and should be guided by scientific decision making not the ill-informed preferences of patients.

	11-09-2005 03:28									#25
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quote: As for the first, people will ask their doctors about it and then change doctors to the ones that will pander to their advertising induced prejudices.

That's better than not asking about problems that can be fixed.

	11-09-2005 03:44									#26
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quote: As for the first, people will ask their doctors about it and then change doctors to the ones that will pander to their advertising induced prejudices.

Why do you think that? Do you have any experience that this has happened?

	11-09-2005 03:54									#27
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Prescription drugs aren't advertised to the general public, but direct to doctors. Ask Dr Strangelove about the incredible drug company freebies he gets offered.

Prescription drugs are very much advertised to the public here. And like Kuci, I've seen plenty of Canadian ads for dental and eye care (primarily laser eye surgery).

	11-09-2005 04:33									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I've heard radio advertisements for emergency rooms on US radio stations.

I'm trying to fathom this. What's it say? . . .

quote: Hi there! Have you just had an arm ripped off . . . ot maybe you've ingested poison. Don't go to that emergency room around the corner. Who knows how good they are? You deserve the best, so race across town to Acme Emergency Room, where we honor most insurance plans.

	11-09-2005 04:49									#29
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@ Zkrib

	11-09-2005 06:25									#30
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So SCOTUS ruled that advertising is speech? That's a bit odd to me, since as I said, advertising is not about a person's statement on any particular issue.

I guess this would be up to interpretation by the supreme court of the land).