12-09-2005 16:38									#1
	Game Length? Support Apolyton

Hello,

I can't seem to find this information about Civ 4 anywhere. I know there are different game length settings like "epic" that effect how long things take, but what I really want to know is: does anyone know if you can play the game for an arbitrarily long time? I hate how Civ 3 ends after 1000 turns.

	12-09-2005 17:01									#2
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Does civ3 stop after 1000 turns or does it stop counting your score? To be honest, is there anything you can't accomplish in 1000 turns. If there is, then thats what the scenario editor is for.

	12-09-2005 17:18									#3
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Civ3 stops counting score after 540 turns, I never made it to 1000 turns. But I can't imagine how you can manage to NOT win or lose the game in 1000 turns. And since the AI doesn't show any signs of intelligence I wonder what you're doing the remaining 460 turns?

	12-09-2005 19:29									#4
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Making pretty pictures out of terraforming on the landscape?

	12-09-2005 20:22									#5
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1000 turns?


Sometimes I delay the victory, just to play a little more AND keep the score counting. But I never go to the turm #540...
I usually win the game 100 turns before that. Well, it's just Monarch level, but I'm trying my first serious Emperor just now...

Don't get me wrong, I love epic games just like the next guy. The problem is, the game just becomes more and more boring when you're far away in techs, money, land and military.

However, I'm sure I'll be kicked soon at Emperor level...

	12-09-2005 21:07									#6
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The reason the game takes so long is because I play with another person and 6 computers, with the only victory option being "eliminate everyone." So I have to eliminate 7 people. Also, the map is huge and people are on different continents. I've elimated 2 computers so far, but its turn 410 already. This seems like the definition of an "epic" game (huge world, possibility of huge empires, must take on many enemies and destroy them all, etc.) but the game seems to be structured so that it isn't possible to actually do it. I was wondering if the next one would be like that to. From the responses I have received so far, I guess so since nobody seems to want to play that kind of game.

	13-09-2005 00:07									#7
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alot of great info here KenCamann
http://civilization4.net/3/114/134/



in a nut shell : its up to the modders

	13-09-2005 02:06									#8
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quote: Originally posted by KenCamann The reason the game takes so long is because I play with another person and 6 computers, with the only victory option being "eliminate everyone." So I have to eliminate 7 people. Also, the map is huge and people are on different continents. I've elimated 2 computers so far, but its turn 410 already. This seems like the definition of an "epic" game (huge world, possibility of huge empires, must take on many enemies and destroy them all, etc.) but the game seems to be structured so that it isn't possible to actually do it. I was wondering if the next one would be like that to. From the responses I have received so far, I guess so since nobody seems to want to play that kind of game.

ah okay, I never bothered with huge maps...

	13-09-2005 02:50									#9
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I think those games are the most fun, huge map, lots of civ... I'm looking forward to Civ4 games at Epic pace on a huge map with at least 15 AIs.

	13-09-2005 06:01									#10
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Start a PBEM the day cIV is released with the maximum allowed human players in combination with the maximum allowed civs in a game. I bet the game will still run by the time CiV comes out.

	13-09-2005 06:14									#11
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Solver, to what extent do you micromanage and how tolerant are you of increasing the amount of micromanagement you are to do?

While I hate micromanagement I perform it to the most exacting best of my ability because it wins games and winning games gives me pleasure as long as I accomplish my learning objectives.

Huge maps are anathema to me because I end up creating a huge workload for myself which has me sitting on the same turn for ten mins or more.

	13-09-2005 06:34									#12
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Start a PBEM the day cIV is released with the maximum allowed human players in combination with the maximum allowed civs in a game. I bet the game will still run by the time CiV comes out.

Don't forget to patch...

	13-09-2005 08:26									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I think those games are the most fun, huge map, lots of civ... I'm looking forward to Civ4 games at Epic pace on a huge map with at least 15 AIs.

Same here -- and processing speed during gameplay should be less of a problem for me, than it was with Civ 3 as I will have a new laptop with excellent upgrades put in at time of purchase.

	13-09-2005 09:02									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Senethro Huge maps are anathema to me because I end up creating a huge workload for myself which has me sitting on the same turn for ten mins or more.

10 minutes is a long turn to you?

	13-09-2005 10:20									#15
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower quote: Originally posted by Senethro Huge maps are anathema to me because I end up creating a huge workload for myself which has me sitting on the same turn for ten mins or more. 10 minutes is a long turn to you?

Let me see. I'm on modern age, huge map, at war with four other civs, moving 150 ~ 350 units each turn (and the AI doing the same)...
Nope, 10 minutes isn't even time enough to micromanage my >100 cities.

	13-09-2005 10:29									#16
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Everybody here knows how a single turn can be looooong and tedious. In late game, I barely find time to play one miserable turn...


Well, is too late for a wish list, but I would love having the epic sensation of an endless flow of history without all that late game boredom...

	13-09-2005 16:09									#17
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Fine, now heres the follow up.

If your game takes more than ten minutes to play a turn because your empire is huge (and believe me, I make myself miserable with >150 formers with an ICS Hive) what reward do you get from playing the game? Either you have won and don't need to play any longer or its going to turn into a Technology/Scientific victory if there are opponents as large and capable as you.

	13-09-2005 16:29									#18
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The devs said a number of times that they are trying to streamline the game play more, by making the initial turns longer and the end turns shorter than in previous Civ iterations.

One way of doing it seems to be putting some restrictions on expansion, making it more viable strategy to have few large specialized cities than a big number of smaller ones.

Also, since you won't need to build roads/railroads on each tile any more, the end game tedium coming after invention of RR won't be there any more.

Edit: Can't spell.

	13-09-2005 17:15									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Aro Let me see. I'm on modern age, huge map, at war with four other civs, moving 150 ~ 350 units each turn (and the AI doing the same)... Nope, 10 minutes isn't even time enough to micromanage my >100 cities.

Let me see. Modern age, standard or large continental map, at war with a couple of other civs, at peace with other two, moving 200 something units... I used to spend about 20 minutes each turn.

I know, I'm a slow thinker. A kind of snail thinker. Actually I started thinking about this post yesterday.

	13-09-2005 18:22									#20
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Everybody here is a slow-thinker. That's why we love turn based games...

	13-09-2005 19:37									#21
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Speak for yourself, I play more than a little Enemy territory, Counterstrike and street fighter when I can get it.

	13-09-2005 19:49									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro Speak for yourself, I play more than a little Enemy territory, Counterstrike and street fighter when I can get it.

Shame on me.

Senethro, you don’t have sense of humor, but you certainly have a point. The whole world IS about fast thinking and clickfests, metaphorically speaking.

And you read fast, too. You even miss some smileys, eventually...

	13-09-2005 19:55									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro Solver, to what extent do you micromanage and how tolerant are you of increasing the amount of micromanagement you are to do? While I hate micromanagement I perform it to the most exacting best of my ability because it wins games and winning games gives me pleasure as long as I accomplish my learning objectives. Huge maps are anathema to me because I end up creating a huge workload for myself which has me sitting on the same turn for ten mins or more.

I hate tedious micromanagement, and that must be the reason why I was never a great Civ3 player, not rising above Monarch. I found micromanaging Workers to be the most mind-numbingly boring thing in the game... and 10 minutes a turn isn't bad, yet 10 minutes spent only on moving Workers is very bad.

As such, I'm very pleased that there is reduced need for MM in Civ4. I don't mind doing some, but the game starts rapidly losing fun once there is a lot of repetitive MM to do.

	13-09-2005 20:04									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Martinus Also, since you won't need to build roads/railroads on each tile any more, the end game tedium coming after invention of RR won't be there any more.

I never did build roads or railroads on every tile.

	13-09-2005 20:16									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Shame on me. Senethro, you don’t have sense of humor, but you certainly have a point. The whole world IS about fast thinking and clickfests, metaphorically speaking. And you read fast, too. You even miss some smileys, eventually...

My apologies, I think I had disengaged my sense of humour when writing that post.

I would also like to say though that my ability to click is not the greatest asset that I bring to those games, nor is it one exalted above all others at high level of play in them.

	13-09-2005 21:56									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith ... I used to spend about 20 minutes each turn. I know, I'm a slow thinker. A kind of snail thinker. Actually I started thinking about this post yesterday.

I'm in the same boat!

	13-09-2005 22:03									#27
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enemy territory

quote: game length?

i think a system like smac where it does not go past 100 turns for all practical purposes as far as comptetiveness goes. the MP games i am in are not worker clickfests and the 'fast' speed allows much more strategy imho,whereas civ3 you just have a blob effect where you unstopably get stronger

	13-09-2005 23:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I hate tedious micromanagement, and that must be the reason why I was never a great Civ3 player, not rising above Monarch. I found micromanaging Workers to be the most mind-numbingly boring thing in the game... and 10 minutes a turn isn't bad, yet 10 minutes spent only on moving Workers is very bad. As such, I'm very pleased that there is reduced need for MM in Civ4. I don't mind doing some, but the game starts rapidly losing fun once there is a lot of repetitive MM to do.

Could not agree with it more than I can