14-09-2005 09:42									#1
	Taking a year off od schoo -- high school, that is Suffering from ads?

This is a board full of relatively young folks, so I thought I'd bring my current dilemma here.

My daughter is hellbent on doing an International Baccalaureate program during her last two years of high school. (If you don't know about IB programs, you can look at the link I just provided, but they are in short a two-year integrated study program culminating in a thesis). The problem is that after her sophomore year, I may have to return to DC for a year before going on to my next post -- and IB requires you to do your whole junior and senior year at one school.

Faced with this problem, young Miss Firefly has said she would prefer to take a year off between sophomore and junior year rather than miss out on IB. But aside from wearing a paper hat and flipping burgers, what would a 16-year old do for a year in the US?

Does anyone have any experience with this? I know there are many more opportunities and alternatives for students now than there were back during the Carter administration, when I was in school. I've begun the tedious process of Googling, but if anyone has a lead on good ideas for a year away from high school, I'm all ears. TIA.

	14-09-2005 09:45									#2
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Self-directed learning. She can just get a hobby, or several. There are so many things you can learn when not in a formal school environment. Taking a year off will free up her time enough to pursue her interests wherever they lead.

	14-09-2005 09:46									#3
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I only did partial IB (computer science only), but I knew many people who did full IB in school.

Looking at what it's done and comments from people who have done it, most seem to regret it. It eats up massive amounts of time compared to regular or AP classes and doesn't really teach anything more.

What these kids did get to miss were some nice GPA-boosting introductory courses in University.

	14-09-2005 09:49									#4
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Self-directed learning. She can just get a hobby, or several. There are so many things you can learn when not in a formal school environment. Taking a year off will free up her time enough to pursue her interests wherever they lead.

True, but there are two problems there. One is that, though extremely bright, she's not that much aof a self-starter; she thrives in structured environments like, well, school (she comes by this honestly; I'm very much the same way). The second is that her chief interest, theater, is not something easily undertaken alone.

	14-09-2005 09:51									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I only did partial IB (computer science only), but I knew many people who did full IB in school. Looking at what it's done and comments from people who have done it, most seem to regret it. It eats up massive amounts of time compared to regular or AP classes and doesn't really teach anything more.

That's my sense, but I think there's some value in her doing her last two years in high school at one school, even without IB. And, frankly, the best public schools in teh greater DC area don't hold a candle to a good international school. So even without IB the problem remains.

	14-09-2005 13:05									#6
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Hmmm...there's lot of options I'm sure. I had a friend go off to work at an animal sanctuary for a year before starting college (although I don't think a high school diploma was necessary anyway). If she's really interested in theater, maybe she could join a troupe or do a show? I've known people to have taken off a year or so to take theater classes/perform on/off Broadway and such. It all depends on what she wants I guess, there's plenty of options.

Oh, and what about doing the junior year in her current school and then doing the IB for two years? It'll mean she'll "stay back" a year, but does it really matter? Also, is there a Mrs. Firefly that can live with her in DC while you're on your other post for one year? Would that be very difficult on you guys? (emotionally and physically)

Just some suggestions, I'll try to think up some more later.

	14-09-2005 13:11									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Mao Hmmm...there's lot of options I'm sure. I had a friend go off to work at an animal sanctuary for a year before starting college (although I don't think a high school diploma was necessary anyway). If she's really interested in theater, maybe she could join a troupe or do a show? I've known people to have taken off a year or so to take theater classes/perform on/off Broadway and such. It all depends on what she wants I guess, there's plenty of options. Oh, and what about doing the junior year in her current school and then doing the IB for two years? It'll mean she'll "stay back" a year, but does it really matter? Also, is there a Mrs. Firefly that can live with her in DC while you're on your other post for one year? Would that be very difficult on you guys? (emotionally and physically) Just some suggestions, I'll try to think up some more later.

They're good suggestions, Mao. I don't think doing five years of high school is the right solution; she's a pretty advanced student, and would only get bored. Some special course work in an area not usually covered in high school might be good, though. And we're looking into the theatrical troupe thing. But we don't want to be separated as a family; we entertained that idea (I even thought about heading to Baghdad or Kabul, since those are one-year tours), but it would be too hard on us. The other idea we're entertaining is a year of meaningful volunteer work; there's certainly pleanty of that in the DC area.

	14-09-2005 13:36									#8
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Oh hell, volunteer work would be great. There's organizations like City Year (I'm not sure about the age requirements for that though) and loads of grassroots organizations to work for if she's interested. The orgs themselves probably won't pay her, but there's grants available and such so she can even make a little bit of money. www.idealist.org is a good site, but IIRC a lot of their job prospectives are left-wing oriented. I'm not sure how her views fit in with that. Oh hell, and you're in DC, go intern for a few senators/reps, it may not be "meaningful" (and I speak from experience), but it sure as hell looks nice on a resume.

	14-09-2005 15:59									#9
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If she were just a wee bit older, I'd say just send her off on a gap year. Most of the websites (http://www.gapyear.com/) are pretty UK oriented because it's becoming almost expected of students here to take a year off between A-levels and University to see the world a bit.

In the old days, we used to ship them off to India. The tradition really hasn't changed all that much .

	14-09-2005 16:05									#10
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have her do a little bit more then normal when in DC, then have her graduate highschool in 3 in stead of 4 years, and go on into college

college is better in every way then highschool, and it is better to have more years of college then of highscool (if you want to do more years)

taking an extra year to finish highschool is just a waste, far better to take a year less... (point out that she can do college, which a good one will be quite a bit better then IB, after a year instead of wasting time in IB after a year)

Jon Miller

	14-09-2005 16:36									#11
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Can she attend a community college and knock off some of her Uni work or even h.s. requirements? A friend of mine graduated from h.s. early because she took a lot of community college courses, and many of those credits also transferred to university later on.

	14-09-2005 17:01									#12
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So she's 16? Send her to travel around the world with super low budget. Adventure. She might a bit young though, especially if there would be no one to go with her. But if she would have like few friends too, it could be the greatest thing that ever happened to her.

	14-09-2005 18:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly The other idea we're entertaining is a year of meaningful volunteer work; there's certainly pleanty of that in the DC area.

I can think of some good groups in the DC area she can volunteer for......

*cough* http://www.youthrights.org *cough*

	14-09-2005 18:55									#14
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If I understand the problem correctly, & please correct me if I've misunderstood, she wants to take a year off so that she can start the IB program at whatever post you get after DC? I was totally unfamiliar with the IB until I read this post & looked at their website, so take that into account with regards to the rest of this post.

IMO, the opportunities in the US for a 16-year-old are somewhat limited. As you pointed out, there's always the option of flipping burgers and asking people if they want fries with that. Not exactly intellectual stimulation, but two points should be made. One: I laid out of college for a couple of years, working as a waiter & a bartender. Obviously, she can't be a bartender & I don't recommend waiting tables because there's very little money to be made when you can't sell alcohol. Anyway, for me, a couple of years of that was pretty good motivation to go back to college & get a degree. Two: On the other hand, I was probably the exception. For many people, it's very hard to break away from any sort of steady paycheck (or cash tips) to go back to school. If she wants to work during that year, there are also clerical & office jobs. There's no shortage of paperwork, filing, etc., in the legal and medical fields. Not to mention the various internship opportunities in the DC area that Mao mentioned.

I would be somewhat leery of the self-directed learning path. You said that she's not much of a self-starter, which, to me, just means that she's like most teenagers. Self-directed learning sounds good, but I think it takes an exceptionally disciplined teenager to make anything useful of it, in the absence of any structure. The lack of self-motivation, IMHO, is pretty much just part of being a teenager.

What about being an exchange student? I noticed on the IB webpage that the diploma program has a second language component. I was an exchange student (twice) back in the late 80's, and, in terms of language acquisition, there's no substitute for total immersion. If you go with one of the recognized programs, they'll find her a family to live with, a school to go to, etc. If she does go the exchange student route, it won't be easy, and it may be particularly tough for a 16-year-old girl. However, it's one of those experiences that, good or bad, really changes you for life. Is there any way to find out wherer you'll be posted following DC? Maybe she could go on ahead & do a year as an exchange student there before starting IB there? That's sure give her a head start, language-wise. I realize that that would involve separation as a family, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

	14-09-2005 19:07									#15
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quote: [SIZE=1] I would be somewhat leery of the self-directed learning path. You said that she's not much of a self-starter, which, to me, just means that she's like most teenagers. Self-directed learning sounds good, but I think it takes an exceptionally disciplined teenager to make anything useful of it, in the absence of any structure. The lack of self-motivation, IMHO, is pretty much just part of being a teenager.

Not true.

The problem is people have too narrow an understanding of learning. Sitting down with an algebra text book is not the only way to learn something. Heck, think of what everyone here has learned just from posting here in the OT and reading other people's thoughts and their links. That's self-directed learning and every teenager can, and most often do, stuff like that.

Helping out around the house involves learning. I'm amazed at how incompetent my 40 year old female housemates are at some simple household repairs. Maybe your daughter can learn how to replace the filter on your furnace or A/C or something.
Learning to program the VCR is learning.
You can learn by watching tv.
You can learn by playing video games.
You can learn by reading a book.
You can learn by surfing the web.
You can learn by following your interests and joining a community theater or whathaveyou. That counts.
If she's never worked before, you actually can learn quite a lot about the world just by flipping burgers.

Just don't be trapped into thinking listening to a lecture and reading a textbook is the only way to learn. Some people learn best that way, but honestly, most don't. Most (not all) people would learn MORE by not going to school for a year or more.

	14-09-2005 19:16									#16
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Some type of volunteer work would probably be the best. It's a lot harder to get into the best colleges without it. They also can make really good essays.

	14-09-2005 19:32									#17
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quote: What about being an exchange student?

	14-09-2005 19:44									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Faced with this problem, young Miss Firefly has said she would prefer to take a year off between sophomore and junior year rather than miss out on IB. But aside from wearing a paper hat and flipping burgers, what would a 16-year old do for a year in the US?

Has she taken a foreign language? If so, perhaps a year abroad would do well. My sister took a year between high school and college and went with this org AFS to Germany. She just got back and is now attending UMass Amhearst. It was the best thing in the world for her.

Of course...now she's engaged to an ex-Neo Nazi...so there can be down sides...

	14-09-2005 19:54									#20
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bacalaureat is nice. you can study in any old eu univeristy you want. free admition. except greece. we are superior.

	14-09-2005 20:04									#21
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Ozzy's right, there's lots of learning. Hell, I learned more history playing civ2 scenarios than I *ever* did in history classes. I'm not sure about the "most" or "some" quantifications, but I'm sure someone else knows more about that.

Rufus, I heard also that you work for the DoS, I'm kinda curious about what you do, esp. since I'm an IR major at Tufts and looking possibly into such a career (hopefully with a JD...).

	14-09-2005 20:30									#22
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Maybe she should play Civ4. I killed a year with Civ2

	14-09-2005 21:23									#23
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Not true. The problem is people have too narrow an understanding of learning. Sitting down with an algebra text book is not the only way to learn something. Heck, think of what everyone here has learned just from posting here in the OT and reading other people's thoughts and their links. That's self-directed learning and every teenager can, and most often do, stuff like that.

Maybe I should clarify my statement. When I think of "self-directed learning," I think of something that (for the most part, at least) lacks structure external to the teenager - in other words, basically leaving a teenager to his or her own devices to decide what to do with each day. My statement about self-directed learning & teenagers is certainly not true for all teenagers. However, I do think that most teenagers, left to their own devices, would spend a year watching tv and lounging. Would they learn something? Absolutely. Would they learn something useful? Maybe. Would they learn something appropriate? Maybe. I can't answer those two. There are too many variables in each case. Community groups, volunteer groups, and jobs, however, involve an element of external structure. There's a place to be, something to do. When you get to the question of tv, websurfing, games, etc., then the question becomes what games, what shows, what websites, etc., as well as factors unique to each teenager, such as maturity level, future plans, etc. For example, a year watching MTV may be perfectly fine for a 16-year-old who wants to be a video director in the future. It may be totally wrong for a different 16-year-old who wants to be a biologist. Nonetheless, I would not recommend letting most teenagers spend a year with no direction. For the ones who do have the judgment/maturity to decide how to spend that year, I'm all for it. I just don't believe that most teenagers have that kind of judgment. (Obviously, your results may vary.)

quote: Helping out around the house involves learning. I'm amazed at how incompetent my 40 year old female housemates are at some simple household repairs. Maybe your daughter can learn how to replace the filter on your furnace or A/C or something. Learning to program the VCR is learning. You can learn by watching tv. You can learn by playing video games. You can learn by reading a book. You can learn by surfing the web. You can learn by following your interests and joining a community theater or whathaveyou. That counts. If she's never worked before, you actually can learn quite a lot about the world just by flipping burgers. Just don't be trapped into thinking listening to a lecture and reading a textbook is the only way to learn. Some people learn best that way, but honestly, most don't. Most (not all) people would learn MORE by not going to school for a year or more.

For the most part, I'd agree. Learning comes in many, many forms. I'd agree that a lot could be learned from the activities you listed. The question, however, is not whether you can learn something. The question here appears to be what a 16-year-old girl can do with her time for a year. Taking the notion that learning comes in many forms, to its logical extreme takes you well outside the realm of what's useful or appropriate for a 16-year-old girl. (And, no, I'm most certainly not claiming to be the arbiter of what's "appropriate" for Miss Firefly, or anybody's children but my own.)

	14-09-2005 21:39									#24
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Yeah, ppl also need to learn discipline and that sometime it takes time to get what you want. Why can't she do this later, when she's older, and done with HS.

IMO, I'd make her finish or take her GED or something and join the Peace Corps... In my house, you either go to school or you earn money, you don't do nothing.

	15-09-2005 03:38									#25
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If she is interested in theater, then DC is a very good place to take it up full time. There are a lot of good acting classes, theater groups to participate in (look for Helen Hayes affiliations), and theater performances to take in. However, this will cost you a fair amount of money (probably equivalent to tuition at a pviate school).

	15-09-2005 04:45									#26
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do nothing will give her lots of bad habbits

and seriously, college is way better then IB, she should work to starting that in a year or so, instead of doing IB and starting college late

JM

	15-09-2005 05:34									#27
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Great, thoughtful suggestions, everybody. Thanks! On a couple of points:

- doing nothing is not an option in our house, either.

- a community college course or two would be an option we'd consider.

- exchange student has possibilities but is hindered by teh fact that you don't seem to be able to be an exchange student without being enrolled in a school that's "exchanging" you -- and that's the whole problem.

- language work is an interesting idea. She's a good-but-bored student of Spanish, but was a very engaged student of German, and has lamented the fact that most schools don't offer German anymore. It would be a good chance to pick that up.

- I agree she could just speed up her move to college, but it doesn't seem to be what she wants. And given that she's on track for a toney private school, teh more time I have to save money, the better.

- The point about volunteer work and college admissions is well-taken.

Thanks again!

	15-09-2005 17:28									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly - exchange student has possibilities but is hindered by teh fact that you don't seem to be able to be an exchange student without being enrolled in a school that's "exchanging" you -- and that's the whole problem.

Is it possible to get her signed up for an exchange program before her sophomore year ends?

Also, it occurred to me that you may need to consider how the transfer of credits from exchange years to US high schools works. I don't have even the foggiest clue about that. I bring this up because it occurred to me that if: (a) she goes on an exchange year, and (b) credits do transfer, then she may be put in the position of having completed her junior year abroad. In other words, when she returns, she may only have one year of HS left. I don't know how that might affect her eligibility for the IB program, but may need to be taken into account.

	15-09-2005 18:32									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Maybe she should play Civ4. I killed a year with Civ2

That was the first thing that came to my mind; wish I could take a year off.