16-09-2005 00:57									#31
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse My only question is whether or not the man actually hit the kid with his car. The teen might be lying and getting his father to support him. The man might have followed the kid home and screamed abuse at him, pissing off the kid enough to hit him. In that case, the kid is probably guilty of some degree of involuntary manslaughter.

	16-09-2005 00:59									#32
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Read that after posting, but counts for the others. .

	16-09-2005 01:21									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III Quoting Frankychan: "The man got what he deserved." You're basing your opinion on the events and whether that constituted self-defence on basically a thin story that may as well been made partially up by the teen and his family to protect him. I think it somehow stinks a bit that the teen was hit, landed on his feet with no injuries, walks up to the car where the offender just awaits the teen coming and opens the window for him in order to get beaten to death. Maybe the teen was a total jackass, the man decided to drive after him, disputing, the teen stopped the car, the man didn't completely break so hit him a bit. Then the teen got to the car killed the man in a fury. Then again, maybe it was exactly as written in the story, but you're all so sure that this was pure self-defence and that basically the man got what he deserved. You seemingly don't care about the adequacy of means. Should it be taken into account that he was hit by the car before, or tried to be run over? Well, of course, but that doesn't entitle you to do with the offender what you want. I have noticed that on Internet boards, people jump so easily to judgements based on single stories. There are so many versions of this story I could think of, but it all happened exactly as in that version. It must be true, it's in the newspaper...

I agree with you 100%. It kind of a boring stance though.

ACK!

	16-09-2005 01:33									#34
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"I have noticed that on Internet boards, people jump so easily to judgements based on single stories. There are so many versions of this story I could think of, but it all happened exactly as in that version. It must be true, it's in the newspaper... "


As you saw by my response, being the level-headed one of the ACS family, I cited both possibilities of fault.
Damn, I'm so rational and intelligent it hurts, sometimes.
So....BYTE ME, DinoDoc.

	16-09-2005 02:16									#35
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Horseshit. He just hit you with his car intentionally. Fighting back is a reasonable response. Going inside is also a reasonable response. Once you put somebody in a situation where they are in reasonable fear of their life, it's up to them to decide which of these two reasonable responses they'll employ. The guy was still in his car. He remained a threat. Walking away might not have appeared the safest thing to do, as he was obviously a homicidal maniac.

Horseshit right back. The guy was still in his car and therefore not a threat. I would love to see the car that can outmanouver a 17 year old football player from a standing start. Especially one 20 yards from his own - open - front door.

	16-09-2005 02:35									#36
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Is DinoDoc a DL of Self-Biased?

	16-09-2005 03:01									#37
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The kid was 300 plus pounds. I'm pretty sure that it is obvious whether or not the car hit him.

	16-09-2005 06:38									#38
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WOW. Issue at Nation States.

Road Rage Rampage
The Issue

Due to the ever-increasing traffic on Panman Land's highways, commuter tempers are flaring, leading to an increase in road rage related accidents. A recent case in which a very impatient driver attacked and seriously injured a slow driver has brought the subject rapidly to the highest levels of the government.

The Debate

"The problem is that our highway system is sorely in need of an overhaul. Panman Land's highways were constructed with a far smaller number of cars in mind- we've exceeded that traffic load by a substantial amount, resulting in traffic jams. Traffic jams lead to impatience, impatience leads to anger, anger leads to road rage, and road rage leads to violence." Claims social commentator Jazz Jong-Il. "We need to expand the freeway system by adding more lanes to relieve the traffic congestion."
[Accept]


"You add new lanes, even MORE people will drive, putting us right back at square one!" Counters George W. Jones of Panman Land's public transportation committee. "Instead of throwing tons of money at a short-term solution, why not spend it on improving bus and rail service and encouraging carpooling? Oh, and get more highway patrol officers to crack down on these violent drivers who pose safety threats to the rest of us."

This is the position your government is preparing to adopt.


"*BLEEP!* that *BLEEP!*" Zeke Bush yells at the top of her lungs from the window of her very large pickup truck with a gun rack mounted in the rear window. "The government should just *BLEEP!*ing stay out of our daily *BLEEP!*ing drive! They ought to let us *BLEEP!*ing rushed businesspeople go about our daily *BLEEP!*ing business, no matter what *BLEEP!*ing measures we have to take to get to *BLEEP!*ing work on time!
[Accept]
The Government Position

The government has indicated its intention to follow the recommendations of Option 2.

	16-09-2005 08:08									#39
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So the guy was trying to kill the kid with his car, but the kid was able to get up and punch the guy from the driver side door? WTF? If the guy was trying to kill the kid and was in control of a car and ran into the kid, the kid isn't getting up... I don't care if he is 300 lbs.

Basically, voluntary manslaughter. The heat of passion. If the guy was backing up to try it again and the kid went and hit him, then maybe self defense. Otherwise, no.

	16-09-2005 08:27									#40
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Imran

	16-09-2005 08:38									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So the guy was trying to kill the kid with his car, but the kid was able to get up and punch the guy from the driver side door? WTF? If the guy was trying to kill the kid and was in control of a car and ran into the kid, the kid isn't getting up... I don't care if he is 300 lbs. Basically, voluntary manslaughter. The heat of passion. If the guy was backing up to try it again and the kid went and hit him, then maybe self defense. Otherwise, no.

See this is were i dont get this... The guy cleary hit this kid with his car, was he tryng to kill him prolly not was the old guy scared when the giant jumped out of the car prolly yes. The old guy was the one who followed this kid home he made no attempt to just let it go, there is no record of any damage to the old guys car till after he ran the kid down. i can guarantee had this old guy lived hed be in the cell next to the kid.

	16-09-2005 08:50									#42
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Again, where is the root fault ?

	16-09-2005 09:01									#43
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Again, where is the root fault ?

If you ask me the old man

	16-09-2005 09:11									#44
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Meh. The kid should get a meager sentence, if anything. If someone shot me, and was standing there pointing the gun at me with the likely possibility of shooting again, I'd be justified in taking the s.o.b. out. I don't see the difference here, providing the facts given in the article pan out.

	16-09-2005 09:12									#45
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Again, where is the root fault ?

That would be the ******* who followed someone home and then hit them with his car while they were walking. Unless you contend that cutting people off justifies such behavior.

	16-09-2005 09:34									#46
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I didn't say that, Boris. I asked a question that will be before a jury in all probability, so pull your claws in.

	16-09-2005 09:41									#47
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hey slow i think he answered you, with no claws. The old man that followed this kid home for a mere cut off. To me if you were going ot go that far get ur as out of the car walk up to the door and speak to the kid parents. If u dont have that intention why bother to follow this kid home. I am not saying the kid was right hitting him but come on, the old man did hit him with his car, not to mention put himself in the positon to be hurt for following this guy home. I also saw that all of the kids teachers have nothing but good to say bout this harden kid that punched a old man that ran him over

	16-09-2005 09:45									#48
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I didn't say that, Boris. I asked a question that will be before a jury in all probability, so pull your claws in.

Huh? You certainly implied such a thing with this post:

quote: You bring up a good point, Kaak. We always hear of someone shooting, running off the road, following, other people due to road rage. My question is, how often has the alleged "victim" provoked other individuals similarly by being a TOTAL DUMBASS? This also brings to mind that, rather than lengthening the duration of a driver's license, more tests need to be given. It's not a right that you have to drive. It's a convenience for people. Can't drive properly, walk your ass everywhere if have to. That's not my problem. Cut me off and force me off the road by piss poor driving, thus enraging me, now I have a problem my problem. The teenager was a jackass, and needs to be locked up. This is of course based on the assumption the 53 year old was observing the rules of the road, including driving the speed limit. People driving 20 mph in a 40 mph zone, in ideal conditions, now fall under the instigator umbrella.

I think most people reading that would think you were blaming the kid for "provoking" the man into trying to kill him with his car (over something that happens every day and was perhaps not even intentional).

	16-09-2005 09:46									#49
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I didn't make a statement as to who I would find at fault.
You focus on the jackass statement, while I also referred to driving too slowly.
But please carry on.

	16-09-2005 12:42									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Imran

Big dog, little dog.

	16-09-2005 14:05									#51
	Re: Teen jailed in road rage incident. Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kaak Basically, this is the story. 17 y.o. cuts off 53 y.o. man. Man follows teen home.

That's the kid's story and he's sticking to it.

Of course, the cut-off might never have happened and the dead dude was just some guy driving down the street.

quote: Originally posted by Kaak teen get out of car, tries to cross the street to his house, man hits teen with car. Teen then walks to the drivers window and punches man twice.

So the other side of the story is: guy is driving down a street, kid runs out in front of him, driver slams on the brakes, but still hits the kid. The driver pulls over cause he wants to check on the kid. Kid freaks out and starts wailing on the driver and kills him.

	16-09-2005 14:17									#52
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quote: It's not ****ing justice; it's self-defense. There's a difference.

As soon as the first punch hit the man, he is no longer a threat. The second punch was criminal.

	16-09-2005 19:17									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai That's the kid's story and he's sticking to it. Of course, the cut-off might never have happened and the dead dude was just some guy driving down the street. So the other side of the story is: guy is driving down a street, kid runs out in front of him, driver slams on the brakes, but still hits the kid. The driver pulls over cause he wants to check on the kid. Kid freaks out and starts wailing on the driver and kills him.

Or aliens took control of the kid's body forced him to do perverted sex acts with the other man. However, what is considered perverted sex to aliens just looks like 2 punches in the face to the average human. The other man died of shock when he saw an alien pull his brain out of his forehead.

Or Mao singlehanded fought the Japanese and booted them out of China and since then China has been a nation of peace that has never engaged in a war of aggression. Meanwhile, in the evil US teens kill groan men just by punching them because their just evil that way.

	16-09-2005 19:22									#55
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Now that HAS to get an admonishment.

Where's the referee?

	16-09-2005 19:25									#56
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There, I made it more appropriate for younger audiences.

	16-09-2005 23:19									#59
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand As you saw by my response, being the level-headed one of the ACS family,

Being a square doesn't make you level headed.