15-09-2005 12:42									#1
	Teen jailed in road rage incident. Support Apolyton

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...ion-apnewjersey

Basically, this is the story. 17 y.o. cuts off 53 y.o. man. Man follows teen home. teen get out of car, tries to cross the street to his house, man hits teen with car. Teen then walks to the drivers window and punches man twice. Man loses consciousness, never regains it, later dies. Teen goes to jail.

Okay call me crazy, but i think it should be a universal maxim that if someone intentionally hits another person with a car, the injured party should be able to punch the aggressor at least twice without having to go to jail for it. just MHO

	15-09-2005 12:49									#2
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The man got what he deserved.

That would be intentional vehicular homicide.
Assault with a deadly weapon
Reckless endangerment
etc etc.

I'm supporting the teen.

	15-09-2005 13:11									#3
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I hope the prosecutor does not decide to make this boy an example. Two punches at somebody who just hit me with a car? That's what concealed carry and a 9mm is for, and if I'm still on the ground it will, in most states, be a good shoot.

	15-09-2005 13:25									#4
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That's ridiculous.

	15-09-2005 13:57									#5
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Sounds like they are treating this as a "one punch homicide."

	15-09-2005 15:34									#6
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I don't see what the problem is. According to the article he wasn't sent to jail, but to a juvenile detention center where he'll await trial a few days later.

The only reason this is being treated so seriously is because a man died in the incident. I'd be surprised, if the court did find him guilty and sent him to jail.

	15-09-2005 15:45									#7
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The man was obviously a super-lightweight I certainly don't see how this is classed as murder as I think anyone would snap at that point...diminished responsibility...

	15-09-2005 19:07									#8
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I don't know, I'd like to know more. Did the teen practice martial arts? If yes, he might possess the ability to hit lethally on purpose. In mean, of course the other man tried to kill him first, but such a detail would certainly change the case considerably.

	15-09-2005 19:10									#9
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Wait...so the kid gets up after being run over with the car, and the guy just waits patiently for him to come over and punch him twice? wtf?

	15-09-2005 19:21									#10
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The 53 year old being in the wrong does not make the 17 year old in the right. Go inside, call the cops. Hitting someone is stupid, especially when you're a three hundred pound football player.

	15-09-2005 19:28									#11
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Horseshit. He just hit you with his car intentionally. Fighting back is a reasonable response. Going inside is also a reasonable response. Once you put somebody in a situation where they are in reasonable fear of their life, it's up to them to decide which of these two reasonable responses they'll employ. The guy was still in his car. He remained a threat. Walking away might not have appeared the safest thing to do, as he was obviously a homicidal maniac.

	15-09-2005 19:30									#12
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The old guy was asking for it. Tragic he died though... but yea, the teen should get off.

	15-09-2005 19:35									#13
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Everybody loses.

	15-09-2005 22:17									#14
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BTW - getting a 300 pound athlete into an adrenalin surge as you try to run over him with your car (and HIT him), and then staying there - definitely puts you in the running for a Darwin award. Do you know how much force that first punch could have had.

	15-09-2005 23:26									#15
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You bring up a good point, Kaak.
We always hear of someone shooting, running off the road, following, other people due to road rage.
My question is, how often has the alleged "victim" provoked other individuals similarly by being a TOTAL DUMBASS?

This also brings to mind that, rather than lengthening the duration of a driver's license, more tests need to be given.

It's not a right that you have to drive. It's a convenience for people.
Can't drive properly, walk your ass everywhere if have to.
That's not my problem.
Cut me off and force me off the road by piss poor driving, thus enraging me, now I have a problem my problem.

The teenager was a jackass, and needs to be locked up.
This is of course based on the assumption the 53 year old was observing the rules of the road, including driving the speed limit.

People driving 20 mph in a 40 mph zone, in ideal conditions, now fall under the instigator umbrella.

	15-09-2005 23:29									#16
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The teenager cut somebody off. The driver followed him home and hit him with his car deliberately.

People who commit attempted murder because of an incident on the freeway should be locked up. If he'd survived then he should have been sent to jail for 10-15 years or so. He didn't. Too bad for him.

	15-09-2005 23:30									#17
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand The teenager was a jackass, and needs to be locked up. This is of course based on the assumption the 53 year old was observing the rules of the road,

Man follows teen home. teen get out of car, tries to cross the street to his house, man hits teen with car.

What rule book do you use when driving?

	16-09-2005 00:05									#18
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Ah Dino, you are missing the real crime here. When the teen got out of the car and tried to cross the street, he was jaywalking. That scofflaw was just begging to be run over.

	16-09-2005 00:25									#19
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To those completely supporting the teen: We should reinstate lynching justice - THE way to go in the 21st century.

	16-09-2005 00:28									#20
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The man was trying to murder him. I don't see the problem with punching him.

	16-09-2005 00:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III To those completely supporting the teen: We should reinstate lynching justice - THE way to go in the 21st century.

Horseshit. He just hit you with his car intentionally. Fighting back is a reasonable response. Going inside is also a reasonable response. Once you put somebody in a situation where they are in reasonable fear of their life, it's up to them to decide which of these two reasonable responses they'll employ. The guy was still in his car. He remained a threat. Walking away might not have appeared the safest thing to do, as he was obviously a homicidal maniac.

	16-09-2005 00:28									#22
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It's not ****ing justice; it's self-defense.

There's a difference.

	16-09-2005 00:31									#23
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Horseshit. He just hit you with his car intentionally. Fighting back is a reasonable response. Going inside is also a reasonable response. Once you put somebody in a situation where they are in reasonable fear of their life, it's up to them to decide which of these two reasonable responses they'll employ. The guy was still in his car. He remained a threat. Walking away might not have appeared the safest thing to do, as he was obviously a homicidal maniac.

Hitting someone after being hit by a car is not a reasonable response. It is however a natural one.

Send him to jail.

ACK!

	16-09-2005 00:34									#24
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My only question is whether or not the man actually hit the kid with his car.

The teen might be lying and getting his father to support him. The man might have followed the kid home and screamed abuse at him, pissing off the kid enough to hit him. In that case, the kid is probably guilty of some degree of involuntary manslaughter.

	16-09-2005 00:36									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Hitting someone after being hit by a car is not a reasonable response. It is however a natural one

Huh?

The car is a deadly fucing weapon. Assuming this is the truth, the man rammed him deliberately with the car, committing attempted murder in the process. The man was still in possession of this deadly weapon. The teen went over to disarm him by knocking his teeth out. The man died. Too bad for him.

	16-09-2005 00:38									#26
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He was attacked with a deadly weapon on a public street.

If you hit me with your car deliberately you had better mean it. Just like if you shoot at me you had better not miss.

	16-09-2005 00:43									#27
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Huh? The car is a deadly fucing weapon. Assuming this is the truth, the man rammed him deliberately with the car, committing attempted murder in the process. The man was still in possession of this deadly weapon. The teen went over to disarm him by knocking his teeth out. The man died. Too bad for him.

If the guy was stopped, it's far more likely he was slamming on his brakes when he hit the kid. The kid landed on his feet so the car couldn't have been going that fast.

Once the kid was on the side of the car near the driver the man was disarmed, I know of no car that can move sideways.

ACK!

	16-09-2005 00:46									#28
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Oh no? Slam the car into reverse, turn the steering wheel full right (assuming the kid is on the driver's side beside the door)

That's like saying that once I've got a grip on a gunman's wrist the fight is over.

The fight's not over until you're sitting on his back on the pavement.

	16-09-2005 00:48									#29
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A car is a deadly weapon. There's no such thing as a trivial assault with a vehicle. Once you've demonstrated the intent to commit assault and the willingness to use 1500 pounds of steel to back you up you've bought yourself trouble.

	16-09-2005 00:55									#30
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Quoting Frankychan: "The man got what he deserved." You're basing your opinion on the events and whether that constituted self-defence on basically a thin story that may as well been made partially up by the teen and his family to protect him.


I think it somehow stinks a bit that the teen was hit, landed on his feet with no injuries, walks up to the car where the offender just awaits the teen coming and opens the window for him in order to get beaten to death.
Maybe the teen was a total jackass, the man decided to drive after him, disputing, the teen stopped the car, the man didn't completely break so hit him a bit. Then the teen got to the car killed the man in a fury.
Then again, maybe it was exactly as written in the story, but you're all so sure that this was pure self-defence and that basically the man got what he deserved. You seemingly don't care about the adequacy of means. Should it be taken into account that he was hit by the car before, or tried to be run over? Well, of course, but that doesn't entitle you to do with the offender what you want.


I have noticed that on Internet boards, people jump so easily to judgements based on single stories. There are so many versions of this story I could think of, but it all happened exactly as in that version. It must be true, it's in the newspaper...