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DanS is offline DanS
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Question  Old Post 15-09-2005 21:34 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Does kidnap for ransom happen often? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have never heard of it happening much in the US or anywhere else in the first world. The very rich might have a bodyguard (many don't, I'm guessing), but most people don't seem to be targets. However, is it that such things aren't publicized much by the media? Or maybe I ignore it when these things happen? Does it happen often in your neighborhood?

By the way, 10,000 pounds of cocaine is an absolutely huge amount!

quote:
Dutch millionaire's daughter released

TOBY STERLING

Associated Press

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Kidnappers demanding a ransom of 660 pounds of cocaine released the daughter of a wealthy Dutch industrialist unharmed, police said Thursday. It was not clear whether any ransom was paid.

Claudia Melchers, 37, walked barefoot into a train station in the town of Arnhem Wednesday night, 48 hours after two armed men gained entry into her Amsterdam apartment, bound her, bundled her into a plastic crate and loaded her into a vehicle to make their escape.

"We don't know why she was released," said police Commissioner Willem Woelders.

He said as far as police know, no ransom was paid and the family didn't have any contact with the kidnappers.

Melchers' father, Hans Melchers, whose chemical company is based in Arnhem, is one of the richest men in the Netherlands, with a personal fortune estimated at $651 million.

Woelders said police did not know why the kidnappers demanded cocaine, or whether such a delivery could have been arranged on such short notice.

"That's a tough question for a policeman because it not my daily business. But that would be a tough job, even for a criminal organization. The quantity is very large and you would need to have the right contacts to do it quickly. I think it is unlikely."

The kidnapping came a month after customs authorities seized 10,000 pounds of cocaine in the Port of Rotterdam, in one of the largest drug busts by Dutch authorities. It was not clear if there was a connection with the kidnappers.

According to Claudia Melchers' account of the abduction, Woelders said, she was held in an empty room on the first floor of a house. She was given clothes and food and allowed to bathe. She told police she saw three men, two who appeared to be Latin Americans and one who was black.

She was disoriented after her release, and suffered minor abrasions on her wrists where she was bound but was otherwise unharmed, he said.

In the assault on Melchers' home in the Old South section of Amsterdam Monday, the gunmen bound and gagged a friend but left Melchers' two young children unharmed.

Police assigned a 60-person team to investigate the case, but had no idea where the woman was until she appeared at the Arnhem train station, 68 miles east of Amsterdam near the German border.

Melchers heard German and eastern Dutch dialects spoken on a radio playing in the distance, Woelders said, implying she was held in or near Germany. But the kidnappers spoke English and the ransom note was written in English.

The abduction of Melchers' daughter revived news stories in the Dutch media about his past.

Hans Melchers is owner of Melchemie Holland BV, which had supplied chemicals to Iraq in the 1980s and was once fined for a shipment of banned chemicals, which it called a "one-time mistake."

Melchers' ex-wife, Anna Maria Lievens, was found dead at the bottom of the stairs of her home in Malta in 1999, apparently after a fall. Dutch media reported Lievens had contacted Dutch financial authorities alleging her husband's company sold chemicals to Iraq, Syria and Libya.

Hans Melchers has not commented publicly on the case, but Dutch media said the family plans to release a written statement later Thursday.

Although kidnappings are rare in the Netherlands, they have happened often enough for Quote magazine to come under criticism for publishing its annual list of the country's wealthiest citizens. Melchers is number 36 on the list.

The most famous case was the 1983 kidnapping of beer tycoon Freddie Heineken, who was released from three weeks in captivity after the kidnappers were paid US$10 million. The mastermind of the kidnapping was caught in Paris several months later and served an 11-year prison sentence. He was shot dead on an Amsterdam street in a gangland-style killing in 2003.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 15-09-2005 21:41 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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It might be that we're not aware of how much it goes on. I can see the rich would want to keep that kind of vulnerablity secret. On the other hand, the really rich have serious security around them.

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
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  Old Post 15-09-2005 21:41 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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It happens all the time in Latin America actually. I have a friend whose dad was kidnapped in like Ecuador or something and ransomed off. Its treated like a business down there. Usually they don't harm the kidnappees, just collect their money and move on to someone else.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 15-09-2005 21:43 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
On the other hand, the really rich have serious security around them.


Do they? I don't know enough of them to know for sure. I think serious security is rather off-putting in American society. I doubt your average hundred millionaire has any personal security.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 15-09-2005 21:53 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Why does it seem to happen all the time in developing countries but hardly at all in the first world? Did the first world focus on such crime in the past and eradicate it?

Flubber is offline Flubber
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  Old Post 15-09-2005 22:10
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My understanding is that the focus of the FBI in kidnapping for ransom was such that the success rate was low and it dropped off as a profitable tactic in the US.

I understand it is still quite common in many less developed nations particularly where the perpetrators have sufficient control of a geographic area that intervention from "police" is implausible

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
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  Old Post 15-09-2005 22:42
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Yeah, I'd say it's basically that it's alot harder to get away with in the first world. It's too easy to track someone down in our societies - in the developing world, huge chunks of the population are totally off the radar.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 05:49
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In El Paso alone over 400 people have been kidnapped over the past few years. Mexico City has more than that many kidnappings each year.

DanS is offline DanS
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Are those 400 kidnappings for ransom? High kidnapping rates don't surprise me, because of child custody issues, etc.

alva is offline alva
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 06:01
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Ransom (mainly westeners) is almost a national hobby in Iraq at the moment.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 06:03
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Kidnappings do happen in the west, how much... not THAT much I guess but I don't really know.

They do happen a lot in Latin American though.. K&R is a big business there. And it even as its own name for it, K&R. Google it up and match it with Latin America.. Columbia etc.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 06:31 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Is there any other kind?
Ever hear of a guy named Charles Lindbergh? Had a boy child? Huh?

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 06:32
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It's an ongoing problem in the Philippines, and it seems to be on the rise again.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Is there any other kind?
Ever hear of a guy named Charles Lindbergh? Had a boy child? Huh?




Actually, yes, there are other kinds. Kidnapping refers to any act of holding someone against their will, for whatever reason. For example, back in the 80's the mayor of Providence was indicted on kidnapping charges (and extortion, and assault) because he and his hired goons held his ex-wife's boyfriend in a warehouse where they beat the crap out of him and then warned him to stay away from the ex-wife. No ransom was asked for or received.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 06:40 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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The ransom was the stay away.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wrong answer.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 06:43
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
The ransom was the stay away.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wrong answer.


Wrong again, Judge Judy; the stay away was the extortion.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 06:56 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Ah HA! Tricked you, buzzard breath!

So I was right.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kontiki
Yeah, I'd say it's basically that it's alot harder to get away with in the first world. It's too easy to track someone down in our societies - in the developing world, huge chunks of the population are totally off the radar.


I'd say it's very easy to get away in the US of A.

I reckon the hard part is to get your hands on the $$$, as you need to assume that the police has been informed.

I don't think the FBI gets involved either, unless the suspects flee across state border.

Lancer is offline Lancer
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 08:54
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I've heard it happens in Manila.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Maybe someone will get you, then it's their problem.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 16-09-2005 at 18:14

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 13:23
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I belief kidnapping is a federal crime, and the FBI can be involved from the get go. One of the biggest problems is spending the ransom, even hard cash leaves a trail unless you are willing to sit on it for years, or leave the country.

Sikander is offline Sikander
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 17:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger


I'd say it's very easy to get away in the US of A.

I reckon the hard part is to get your hands on the $$$, as you need to assume that the police has been informed.

I don't think the FBI gets involved either, unless the suspects flee across state border.


The FBI is involved in a number of areas of criminality which don't cross state lines, kidnapping and bank robbery being the most common.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 18:05
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It happened to the Gettys:

quote:


Son's kidnapping horror

The second came two years later, when Sir Paul's eldest son Paul, then 17, was kidnapped by Italian terrorists, who demanded a ransom of more than $3m.

The boy's grandfather refused to help pay the ransom, believing it would endanger his other grandchildren.

He relented only when the kidnappers cut off Paul's ear and sent it to the family.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2956897.stm


And it used to be popular in Corsica and Sardinia, as I recall:

quote:
Criminal gangs in Italy have found that the kidnapping of children is particularly profitable. In July 1975, eighteen-year-old Cristina Mazzotti was kidnapped; a ransom of $2 million was paid, but the kidnappers killed her just the same. Another father stood firm for six weeks when his seventeen-year-old daughter was kidnapped, but paid a ransom of $4 million when they threatened to kidnap his other daughter as well. And in 1977 à $2 million ransom was paid for a five-year-old Italian girl kidnapped on her way to school in Geneva.


http://www.self-defender.net/extras/kidnap.htm

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 18:19
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The Getty thing - the true story is the kid made a deal with "kidnappers", was a part of the organization, but they turned on him. It was in a documentary some time ago.

Heerscher is offline Heerscher
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 19:23
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I watched a program on national television yesterday. A criminal expert said this sort of kidnappings happen on a regular basis in the criminal circuit. A criminal steals another criminal's coke, the victim kidnaps the daughter of the thief and extorts him for the stolen coke. These crimes don't come to light often. The criminal who's coke is stolen won't go to the police, because that would be kinda stupid. "Officer they stole my 300 kilo's of coke! It's an outrage!"

The big question on everybody's mind right now is: is the Melchers family (the are known as rich industrials with an untarnished reputation) connected to the criminal circuit in which these kinds of kidnappings happen?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 21:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I doubt your average hundred millionaire has any personal security.


I don't. Millionaries may not, and I've known a few who didn't. But there are quite a few who do, and not just celebraties.

Remember what happened to the heiress to the of the Wrigley fortune.

Flubber is offline Flubber
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  Old Post 16-09-2005 23:19
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The problem is making the contact to get the cash. Someone that was an absolute expert in international banking might be able to wire money around electronically to a zillion places such that it couldn't be tracked but I am not such an expert so I don't know for sure. Part of me thinks that the authorities will be able to track that down (although you might get little sympathy or assistance from some overseas banks

If the ransom is actual cash, I would think that there would be some form of GPS locator in it. I believe those things can get pretty small so I would think that kidnappers would be tracked

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
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  Old Post 17-09-2005 20:25
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About 2-3 years ago, we had a kidnapping for ransom in my county. This guy came over from Europe (I think it was Finland ) and kidnapped an 82 year old woman and help her for $3,000,000 in a metal shed for over a week in freezing temps. He only occasionally fed her some water and fries for the entire time. She ended up loosing a foot (I think) to gangrene. When they rescued her and caught him the judge felt it was only fair to hold him for a 3 mil dollar bond. He was convicted and is currently sitting on a 30 year truth in sentencing sentence and he is going to be deported when he gets released.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 17-09-2005 20:26 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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  Old Post 17-09-2005 20:32
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quote:
The kidnapping came a month after customs authorities seized 10,000 pounds of cocaine in the Port of Rotterdam, in one of the largest drug busts by Dutch authorities.


What are Dutch authorities doing making a drug bust?

 
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