16-09-2005 14:36									#1
	Turn 29, 2630BC Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Save is Here


Status (from last turn)
Government currently in: Despotism
Researching Iron Working, 148 of 180, 4t, +8 to 156
Treasury: 0g
CashFlow: 0gpt


Pre-Turn Actions
None


Military Orders
Military Units:

Enkidu Warriors
Enk#1 Dumuzi the Shepard -
Enk#2 Geshtinanna - 3, Onto hut? - Krill
Enk#3 Ziusudra - wait and see what happens with the barbs, probbly 23, onto hill then fort to heal - Krill
Enk#4 Kur - Fortified in Apolyton
Enk#5 Grog - Fortified in Apolyton

Domestic Orders

Workers:
Mr. Rush Job - Frozen
Million Dollar Worker - busy mining, 3/6

Settlers:
T-2

Cities:
Apolyton - 4-5-6-11-17 (Build Settler), growth in 1
89 - Let me check tonight

Builds:
Apolyton - Building Settler, shows as barracks (turn 2 of 4[3] scheduled).
89 - building Enk (turn 2 of 5) - Krill

Other Domestic
Slider - 10/70/20
[EDIT by E_T] 21 beakers left, so Slider to 10/70/20 for this turn and 20/60/20 for next turn.
[/edit]


Diplomacy to be done



Any other things to be done
Pray to the RNG properly before we pop the hut...

Last edited by E_T on 18-09-2005 at 22:00

	16-09-2005 18:28									#2
	Tired of ads?

switch the production to barracks before we pop the hut and switch back to settler afterwards...

our chances for 3 barbs in 3 huts were about 27% so hopefully we get lucky this time...though of cours the chance for barbs are again 65%...

4*barbs in 4 huts is only 18% on emperor...

	16-09-2005 18:37									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Any names for 8-9?

	17-09-2005 22:18									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Supposed to be Webringen, atleast as far as I know.

E_T

	18-09-2005 04:34									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

For ET:

Attachment: player of the sumerians, 2630 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	18-09-2005 04:36									#6
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Supposed to be Webringen, atleast as far as I know. E_T

I'd rather reserve that for what is sure to be a permanent city. I was thinking the one with iron.

	18-09-2005 05:41									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Mingatopia??

nye, I want to discuss something with you in chat??

* E_T smacks nye around with a Trout

E_T

	18-09-2005 18:13									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The Save

Attachment: isdgf_029d_cbr.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	19-09-2005 00:12									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Results:
Begin Turn:
None.

Actions:
Units:
E1 Dumuzi the Shepherd moves 2, CDZ border SE!
E2 Geshtinanna moves 1, YMB!
E3 Ziusudra. moves 9
E4 Kur. Fortified in Apolyton
E5 Grog. Fortified in Apolyton


Worker Jobs:
W1 Mr. Rush Job, frozen
W2 Million Dollar Worker, mine (3 of 6)

Economy:
Work Force:
Apolyton Size 5 - WF at 4-5-6-11-17. 9spt, 1g/8b/2lpt, +5fpt. Grows in 1
8-9 Size 1 - WF at 4. 2spt, 0g/3b/1lpt, +3fpt. Grows in 6

Builds:
Apolyton - Change to Settler (2 of 4[3])
8-9 - Enk (2 of 5)


Slider:
Slider to 10/70/20 (tax/sci/lux)
Researching Iron Working, 159 [adjusted, 1bpt is 21t] of 180, 2t, +11 to 170
Treasury: 0g
CashFlow: 0gpt


Demographics:

code:
Approval        58%, 5 -2
Population  178,000, 1 +2
GNP          15 mil, 1 +1
MnfGoods    11 mton, 1 +1
LandArea    2500m^2, 6
Literacy         0%, 1
Disease          0%, 1
Pollution    0 tons, 1
LifeExp    42 years, 1 +2
FamilySz    2 child, 2
MilService  8 years, 3 -1
AnnualIncome  1/cap, 3
Productivity     34, 1 +1

--
%of world area    1. nc  Top rival, Civ3 Brazil 2 nc  
%of world pop    19, +2  Top rival, Civ3 Brazil 16, +5
1 city culture   37, +2, Apolyton; Top rival, Laranja Verde 37, +2
Civ culture      37, +2, Top rival, Civ3 Brazil 37, +2


Military Advisor:
vs Civ3 Brazil, Strong nc

Phoenician tribes near Apolyton

Images:

	19-09-2005 02:55									#10
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Well, we have lots of barbs to get upgrades from!

	19-09-2005 02:57									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If we don't see a CDZ unit do we approach their border so as to make contact?

Also, it appears that CBR was telling us the truth about CDZ. (That they made contact with them. )

	19-09-2005 05:55									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by BigFree If we don't see a CDZ unit do we approach their border so as to make contact?

Yes please

	19-09-2005 11:59									#13
	Suffering from ads?

We are first in Population, GNP, Mfg and Productivity

Good job to our MM and economy planners

	19-09-2005 19:16									#14
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Let's name the city "Eighty-Nine".

	19-09-2005 19:19									#15
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Hey, personally I like that suggestion

	19-09-2005 19:31									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If you name it with numbers, then at least "eight of nine" it sounds more feminin ( Star Trek like ) and due to the fact that it will be a worker pump

	19-09-2005 19:52									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

TR, better make it "Nine of Eight"

	19-09-2005 20:01									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If I remember the blond girl in Star Trek called "seven of nine" the nice ex-bork-machine with the big two "worker pumps" in front of her dress therefore
"eight of nine"

	19-09-2005 21:24									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Population 178000 - 1st. (from 3rd to 1st).
Population Ranking as follow :

1) Poly
2) CDZ (Beyond P +5 food, had Granary. 2nd city built in 3150BC. Settler produced this turn)
3) CGN (Invictus. 2nd city founded in 2950BC)
4) CBR (LV +5 food. 2nd City founded in 3100BC. 3rd City founded 2710BC.)
5) PAL (Capital, Built Granary in 3100BC. 2nd City founded in 2800BC. Settler produced this turn)
6) BAT (Delhi , Built Granary in 3100BC . 2nd City founded 2850BC. Settler produced this turn)

City Size Analysis as follow (Figures in grey : best estimates):



GNP 15m = 1st. (GNP +1, position from 2nd to 1st)
This turn. 15 (Poly), 15, 14, 13, 12, 12
Last turn. 15, 14, (Poly) 14, 14, 13, 12

Mfg Goods 11 megatons - 1st (Mfg no change, position from 2nd to 1st)
This turn order. 11 (Poly), 11, 11, 8, 8, 6
Last turn order. >12, 11 (Poly), 9, 9, 9, 8

Productivity 34 = 1st. (Productivity +1, position from 2nd to 1st)
This turn order. 34 (Poly), 34, 31, 29, 27, 26
Last turn order. >33, 33 (Poly), 32, 29, 28, 27

GNP, Mfg and Productivity all improved due to PAL, BAT, CDZ all produced settlers.

CBR Intelligence Summerised
1. CBR found Laranja Verde in 4000BC. From 4000BC to 3500BC, LV produced 3 Warriors and grew at +4 Food per turn.
2. From 3500BC to 3200BC, LV produced Settler. +4 Food. 2nd city founded in 3100BC.
3. From 3250BC to 3000BC , LV improved to +5 Food per turn. It's still at +5 food now (2630BC).
4. LV produced Settler in 2800BC. 3rd city founded in 2710BC.
5. City 2 produces a worker in 2670BC.
6. CBR likely to have 5 warriors, weak to us. (4 produced by LV, 1 by City 2)

Technology
CBR has CB. Using Tech Calc, CBR does not have Writing, Masonary, Wheel, Warrior Code.

Luxury/Others
2 teams had connected luxury. At least 3 teams had Granary (BAT, PAL, CDZ)

Summary of Changes This Turn
1. PAL, BAT, CDZ all produced settlers
2. Watch out for the CDZ settler

	19-09-2005 22:36									#21
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Hmm... what about avoiding the CDZ border and trying to spot their (possibly) unguarded settler to capture?

	19-09-2005 22:41									#22
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Because threatening the team that can build MWs, and is most likely more than half way towards them, is called suicide.

And if they have got a granary in their capital, producing settlers is not a difficulty for them.

	19-09-2005 22:43									#23
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Rush, are you (fairly) certain that CDZ have not built a second worker yet?

	20-09-2005 00:11									#24
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r Hmm... what about avoiding the CDZ border and trying to spot their (possibly) unguarded settler to capture?

That it something to seriously consider....

	20-09-2005 00:46									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Krill Because threatening the team that can build MWs, and is most likely more than half way towards them, is called suicide. And if they have got a granary in their capital, producing settlers is not a difficulty for them.

They need to connect horses to make MW, and if we kill off their settlers they can't do that

However, I dont think we should be starting wars when he have very little mil available to fight it, so I think attacking any CDZ settlers we meet would be a bad idea. We can move into a position to threaten them, if we get the chance, forcing them to either risk it or withdraw or otherwise re-route & delay the settler.

	20-09-2005 00:54									#26
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We don't have a clue where horses are. Horses could be right underneath their capital for all we know

They have a 4 turn settler pump. 4 turns from now they could wander off and get horses if they are not already in their culture borders. We would have to capture that settler as well. And the one after that. And the one after that. With nought but a single, reg, Enk.

Not smart, we, as a team, have to agree.

	20-09-2005 02:15									#27
	Remove this text

Threatening their settlers would do just about the same as far as raising their ire against us as it would be to just outright capture them.

If we are serious about taking out CDZ then we should make a very early archer rush against them with CBR's help, of course. IF CBR cannot or will not join up for this then of course we should not risk it by ourselves.

The reason I say go for the early rush is so that CDZ never even gets a MW built. IF CDZ is heading straight for HBR, then they won't have Spearmen to defend with. An early war against CDZ will be less costly than a latter one in which we will have to fight a very nice UU but also a Civ in it's Golden Age. Granted we'd be in one as well, but we'd be wasting ours as compared to CBR's at a latter point.

The point people make is that we are not ready for a war is not a good point because NO team is ready for a war. Which is exactly the reason we should bring one to them ASAP. Then we head into an era of complete tech cooperation with CBR, spltting up the Continent evenly. I have no doubt that we'd out produce/build CBR so they would never really be a threat to us.

	20-09-2005 04:52									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Rush, are you (fairly) certain that CDZ have not built a second worker yet?

I am certain that their capital, Beyond P, has not produced a Worker. The population growth pattern had been rather steady. Please see chart below.

However, I can't say for sure whether CDZ 2nd city has produced a worker. Likelihood is no. We should however know better after we met, as CDZ's higher population will see them replace CBR in the F8 population score.

	20-09-2005 12:41									#29
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Er, Rush, only way that CDZ could have 5 food per turn in their second city is if it is on fresh water and has access to flood plains wheat, or irrigated grass cow/wheat/game, right? More likely they are just at +4 fpt in their second city.

So if, as you say, they have not built a second worker in their capital, they must not have built that many mines, if any.

But as they have built a granary in 10 turns, they must have been at an average of 6 spt (from turns 16 through to 25). And they started at size 2? Something seems to be amiss here.

---

The conclusion I draw from this is that they have not, as you said, built a worker in their capital. The only way that I can see them building a granary in 10 turns is if they used a forest chop to speed the build, and had a mined bonus grassland, the irrigated cow, and 2 unimproved bonus grasslands to use at the start of the build. Get the forst chop completed, and they hit 60 shields the turn before they hit size 5.

If I'm right, these guys know how to MM pretty damned well, but they have only built one warrior in their capital before they built built the settler, and after that settler they went straight onto the granary build.

In other words, they could have very little military right now.

	20-09-2005 16:09									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

krill, once we establish contact with them next turn, we will know the size of their City 2. At this point, it's simply a best assessment based on the movement of the F8 population score.

I agree with you though, if they have not been producing worker, then they could not possibly have mined many tiles and hence not capable of producing a Granary in 6 turns like us. They might have taken a few more turns, especially since they started building the Granary when they were only at size 2/3.

However, we have to assume that CDZ have productive tile like the Forest Game tiles that both we and CBR have and have at least a couple of shielded grassland.

We should know very soon whether their military is weak though. We can also ask CBR.