17-09-2005 04:11									#1
	Empty Facilities Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This may or may not have been discussed before (sorry if it was but I didn't know what to search for), but why did the creators of SMAC/X put the empty facility and secret project entries in the alphax.txt file if there is no way to make those facilities do anything? Is it just to taunt us or were they just lazy? Or is there some way to add that functionality to new facilities that we just don't know about?

	17-09-2005 05:12									#2
	Re: Empty Facilities Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by doodle_diddle This may or may not have been discussed before (sorry if it was but I didn't know what to search for), but why did the creators of SMAC/X put the empty facility and secret project entries in the alphax.txt file if there is no way to make those facilities do anything? Is it just to taunt us or were they just lazy? Or is there some way to add that functionality to new facilities that we just don't know about?

Back in the days before the CMN Googlie discovered how to give AI's satelittes to mimic how a human uses crawlers, why the Empty Facilities could be used by Creators and CMN for the Progs. Essentially the Progs get +1 Energy for each 2 facilities in their bases. A Creator or CMN could then give the Progs empty facilities or empty SP's in specific starting bases in order to give the Progs extra energy per base per turn, without having to give the Progs the extra benefits that would go along with giving the Progs regular facilities.

Or the Empty Facilities could just have been placeholders in the alphax.txt file for ideas that didn't make the final cut in the game....


D

	17-09-2005 05:42									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

when did googlie find out how to do that?

	17-09-2005 05:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 when did googlie find out how to do that?

Shortly after I admitted I couldn't figure out how to give the AI's satelites, which was around January 2004. Essentially what spurred our research into this was that I was building the PBEM "Last Sentient Standing" and wanted to give the AI's satelites. Unfortunately I couldn't figure out the keystroke commands in order to accomplish this, and I built the game without sats. Googlie probably then spent the better part of a month figuring out the keystrokes (as well as the circumstances) necessary to generate sats for the AI's. Sometimes I think that he did this just to show that he is a superior CMN to me....


D

	17-09-2005 06:09									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

2004 huh?



interesting historical bit.

	17-09-2005 17:26									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 interesting historical bit.

There was a whole generation of players who did lots of things with the game even before I came online in 2001. I remember when I was developing the backstory for my Beta Lyrae mod I asked Googlie if the community had ever thought out why the Progs only sent one spaceship from each faction back to Planet, and he pulled up several Word documents that had been generated back in 2000 detailing the events as to how this occured. This is just one example, but if you go back into the archives of each AC Forum, your bound to find lots of good info that has been lost to the mists of time....

Sorta reminds me of David Brin's "Startide Rising" series where the Galactic Library is so big and so old that there are whole sections that are continually being rediscovered (and re-explored) for the benefit of those who stumbled back onto them.

Anyways, back onto topic: if a player conquers a base with empty facilities in it, then the conquering player can then also cash in the empty facility just as they would any other facility!

D

	18-09-2005 00:29									#7
	Got spare money?

Could you give bases negative maintenance, essentially giving you credits?

	18-09-2005 00:33									#8
	Remove this text

It seems so. Impalers' mod made use of that as well. He gave a lenghty explanation last year on how he did it.

	18-09-2005 00:56									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

overflow numbers?

	18-09-2005 01:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I guess the 'useless' facilities aren't so useless if you can use them in the ways you guys mentioned. I just wish they had provided methods of making them do more than just affect energy. I wanted to create something like "Cathedral of Planet" or different types of labs... I hope they make SMAX2...

	18-09-2005 11:07									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I recently found, that it is possible to give a base tile negative energy. This may represent like 1 EC for maintenance of a base. It occured to me when recently working on anti-ICS mod.
Has anyone noticed this before?

There is problem though, that if energy is less than zero, it is assigned zero. So
0-1 = 0
1-1 = 0
The benefit of -1 energy in base tile is working then for economics effects, when +1 or higher energy is granted to each base.

	18-09-2005 11:12									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan Anyways, back onto topic: if a player conquers a base with empty facilities in it, then the conquering player can then also cash in the empty facility just as they would any other facility! D

Then if you setup an empty facility as giving benefits, and they would be given to an AI faction, human player would be still able to conquer the base and use these benefits instead of cashing the facility only. Unless facility does nothing else if it is in progenitors faction.

	18-09-2005 16:17									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

mart did you try overflow numbers?

googlei might have been giving it massive values like 65000's area for example.that often rounds over to positive numbers (for ec income)

	18-09-2005 20:29									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Basically, doing a "-1" on a base tile nullifies the effect of a rec tanks in the energy department.

All it really does is giving the player a slower lab/economy start.

	19-09-2005 09:20									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Basically, doing a "-1" on a base tile nullifies the effect of a rec tanks in the energy department. All it really does is giving the player a slower lab/economy start.

Yes, and this is what it is in ICS preventing. Your gain from ICSing in the early game is limited. It is all about giving as little as possible from that "free worker" - base tile.

The real problem are satellites. You build 1 satellite, then your gain multiplies as many times, as you have bases, and cost remains the same. I think that is the weakest part of satellites. Kinda perpetum mobile. something from nothing.

	19-09-2005 09:20									#16
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 mart did you try overflow numbers? googlei might have been giving it massive values like 65000's area for example.that often rounds over to positive numbers (for ec income)

I haven't played with it yet, but soon.

	19-09-2005 10:59									#17
	Support Apolyton

Ah, but by the time satellites come around no sane player should still be ICSing.
Not cost-effective IMO.

	19-09-2005 11:04									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Becuse you no longer value that free-worker anymore? And facilities cost in each base... Right, ICS is for the start of the game.
However, you might make many bases with no facilities in them, for just pure bonus of these satellites. A tile can have only this much nutrients or minerals or energy. You have enough satellites and that base tile gets free stuff from satellites. better than a borehole.

	19-09-2005 11:10									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Perhaps, but by that time the average (not huge) map is already filled with bases. No room for more, except perhaps seabases which brings its own vulnerabilities in regard to opposing factions.

	19-09-2005 13:39									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Becuse you no longer value that free-worker anymore? And facilities cost in each base... Right, ICS is for the start of the game. However, you might make many bases with no facilities in them, for just pure bonus of these satellites. A tile can have only this much nutrients or minerals or energy. You have enough satellites and that base tile gets free stuff from satellites. better than a borehole.

I think I know at least one player who had tried it and had it work with great success (I mean ICSing all until you get to sats and even after that)..

	19-09-2005 14:02									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

In one game, I used Sikander spacing with Zak (so VW leads to drone-free new bases), and filled in the gaps when I got satellites. With pop booming, my strength soared ridiculously.

	21-09-2005 15:48									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 mart did you try overflow numbers?

Actually I tried simple negative maintenance.
And it seems to work with no problems in SMAX.
My recent attempt is:
Central Exchange, maint.: -50 EC
Each AI gets it in HQ base. Might be a bit too strong at the beginning of the game, but I will see as the tests progress.

it shows weird on the F3 screen:
--50