17-09-2005 05:18									#1
	Restarting Research while still in GA Got spare money?

I would like to try to get Engineering, before our GA finishes. Reasons are:

- We have lots of rivers to cross, in defense of our homeland and having greater freedom of movement would help immensely.

- We have 2 and hope to have 4 or more cats that can then be upgraded to Trebuckets. Having that 6 Bombard Capability would help greatly, once BoH finally takes the time to try to Invade us. As Bombardment works on the Defensive value (terrain not counted) of whatever unit it's firing at (both offensively and defensively), that would help against the BoH UU. It will have a 6/(2+6) is 6/8 or 75% possibility of hitting a 2 defence Unit (MI's, Swords, Spears, Ancient Cav, Kishik & Immortals). Against 1 defence Units (Warriors, Horsemen, WC's, Archers & Longbowmen), it will have 6/(1=6) = 6/7 or 85 to 86% chance to hit. Against 3 defense Units (Num Mercs, Pikes, Knights & Crusaders), it would be 6/(3+6) = 6/9 or 66/67% to hit.

Compaired to Cats, the 1 defence gets 80%, the 2 defence gets 66/67% and the 3 defence gets 4/7 or 57%. Enought to hit or miss.

- Allow us to trade for Mono with someone

- Allow us to research towards GunPowder (need Invention first...)

- Allow us to possibly get an SGL once finished. SGL would be used for a Wonder (GW or SZ or Leo's, if we can get ti Invention)

We currently, even in our reduced state, are #2 in GNP. We still have 1 Library and we can build them for cheap. But we first have to get our Iron and units upgraded. But we currently have the capability to research it, at very low deficit, before the end of our GA. That and then have the cashflow for the cat upgrades.

But we need to start on this soon.

Please discuss

E_T

	17-09-2005 05:55									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It looks as if it would take 12 turns at -10 to do this; or 11 turns at -17. We have 250 in the bank, so option b would take us down to 250-187 = 63 GP. This is vs. +52 per turn otherwise. I don't know how much longer the GA is going to run, is it a recent thing?

If we research at all it is either Mono or Eng. Mono is our path to Chivalry, which I assume will be a must. Will anyone want to trade Mono if this is the case?

Will we do better to bank 10X52=520 GP and try to buy things outright? It seems that everybody but us and AM is Despotic so money doesn't mean much. Of course, if we buy, that gives the other burning infidels from hell the fruits of our labors to turn against us.

Crossing rivers is nice and better arty is nice. If we had a chance of getting to Chivalry first, while we are still alive, that could be a game breaker.

(What was AM thinking - stabbing us in the back? We are scientific, and, assuming survival, will be in a position to give their enemies advances which we will deny them. Hmm. More thoughts on this later after I ponder.)

So is the question, "which do we research" or is it "do we research at all?" I would definitely begin researching something. The break point is from 15 turns to 12 turns and I suppose that we may as well do the 12.

Overall, I like the idea. It gives us something useful and something that we can trade.

Are we going to go harvest the barbs to the west sometime so that we get a little more cash?


Golden Bear

	17-09-2005 07:20									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

3 civs have Mono: DR (who got it as free age advencement tech), BoH and more than likely, AM. BoH got it from DR and likely so did AM.

DR is also in their GA. It's very likely that they are/have completed Chivalry

AM is in their GA, but they claim to be researchng Republic (this has been stated on various dates, so I tend to beleave it).

BoH had traded Feudalism to DR, after they had stolen it from us. This was so that DR could get started on the Chiv research.

AM attacked us, after concluding a border & Tech cooperation deal with us. They were working on an MPP with us, when they made the attack. Part of that deal was us trading Feudalism to them. But they had made all of the border and tech partnership plans to get Feudalism for virtually free (30 gold - or in their case, silver...). Basically, their reasoning was to move their palace to our lands, while having their FP in the old one. This would give them a large production base and further protect themselves from BoH. They beleave that they can handle anything that BoH will send at them. Yes, they certainly are fools.

But anyways, Mono is cheaper, as the tech beaker cost is reduced because 3 others already have it. Also, if we do research it, we can't have a possibility for a SGL, as we wouldn't be the first to have finished the research. Where as, Engineering will give us something to trade for Mono and will also open the route to Gunpowder/Muskets and later Metalurgy/Cannon and Mil Trad/Cavalry.

Granted, I really don't think that we would survive to that point, but it never hurts to try....

Also, those research/cashflow figures are based on how we look now, both city and number of unit wise. More cities will give us more trade. At this time, Getting Iron city up, Rebuilding PoA and hopefully retaking Felinicity (AM renamed it to Terrance Mill or something like that) will help out alot.

that and reclaiming old territory, next to Lake Istar.

E_T

	17-09-2005 08:11									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

from the Golden Bear.

	17-09-2005 23:56									#5
	Tired of ads?

Researching Construction sounds like a good thing to do. Obviously you have done some thinking about it, and I canīt see a good reason for not doing so.

Construction

	18-09-2005 00:24									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Umm, Engineering, not Construction. We got Construction last age....

E_T

	18-09-2005 14:04									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Bleh, you know what I mean.

	18-09-2005 22:20									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

just making sure....

E_T