20-09-2005 11:44									#1
	Unescorted Settlers Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

in one of the many reviews read

There is an danger involved in sending out a settler unprotected.
That could be threatened by wild life

Lions and tigers and bears OH MY

I wonder If building an outpost help keep you see wild animals?

What are your thoughts on this ?

	20-09-2005 11:54									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

This sounds very good and will delay players' expansion as they build warriors to escort people to new city sites.

	20-09-2005 11:56									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Outpost?? Did we hear anything about anything resembling an outpost?
What's wrong with escorting them with a warrior?

	20-09-2005 12:15									#4
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I can't see that anyone said escorting with warriors is bad, alva. And no, I too haven't heard of outposts so far AFAIR.

	20-09-2005 12:20									#5
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just a guess on the outpopst

has there has been something simiular to that in the games past?

	20-09-2005 12:23									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Only in CTP(2) I think.

	20-09-2005 12:43									#7
	Got spare money?

Didn't C3C have them or were they allready on PTW?
Not sure, never build the buggers.

	20-09-2005 13:07									#8
	Remove this text

Perhaps, but I can't remember that. I never can have used them in that case.

	20-09-2005 13:27									#9
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the problem with outpost in PTW and conquests is they give no greater LOS than a unit does and they dont stop barb camps appearing like having a unit posted does.

also as soon as a barb or enemy enters the outpost tile it is destryed so a complete waste of the worker it cost to build

	20-09-2005 15:51									#10
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quote: Originally posted by alva Outpost?? Did we hear anything about anything resembling an outpost? What's wrong with escorting them with a warrior?

Hmm, I see potential for additions to the tech. tree- the park or forest ranger, 'the wisdom of Gaia', new city improvements such as the petting zoo, city farm and safari park... the Siegfried and Roy warriors !

	20-09-2005 16:05									#11
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Having Settlers unescorted is a big tradeoff. You can, if you're lucky, get your new city faster, but if you're unlucky, you've just lost a Settler and a lot of time producing it. Such a setback early in the game can be very, very painful.

	20-09-2005 16:48									#12
	Tired of ads?

Probably one of the main causes of a restart...
Once the AI can make such a decision and will do so, we'll have a realistic game (that no one wants...sweet irony ).

	20-09-2005 16:50									#13
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Nah, you need to be a man and not restart!

I dunno why, I don't restart / reload my games. Only if I misclick and declare war on accident or something like that. If I lose an early Settler, that's my fault, and I carry on.

	20-09-2005 16:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Having Settlers unescorted is a big tradeoff. You can, if you're lucky, get your new city faster, but if you're unlucky, you've just lost a Settler and a lot of time producing it. Such a setback early in the game can be very, very painful.

Similar to SMAC, where an unescorted colony pod could get ambushed by a mindworm.

	20-09-2005 17:06									#15
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Similar to SMAC, where an unescorted colony pod could get ambushed by a mindworm.

And to Call To Power where lonesome settlers were predated by slaver units.

	20-09-2005 17:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus the problem with outpost in PTW and conquests is they give no greater LOS than a unit does and they dont stop barb camps appearing like having a unit posted does.

I don't know if this is a problem - what is an outpost but a regular unit sitting on a little wooden platform? It's not realistic to have it see more than this (think hundreds of square miles).

	20-09-2005 17:32									#17
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But it should have some guarding by default, no?

	20-09-2005 18:04									#18
	Re: Unescorted Settlers Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Platypus Rex in one of the many reviews read There is an danger involved in sending out a settler unprotected. That could be threatened by wild life Lions and tigers and bears OH MY I wonder If building an outpost help keep you see wild animals? What are your thoughts on this ?

There should be no reason that settler units should be attacked by wild animals. Keep in mind that every unit in Civ is an abstract of a real idea.

Settler units can simply be assumed to carry enough simple weapons to fend off wild animals. In wild Africa 6,000 years ago, people could simply carry spears with them. A group of humans all armed with simple weapons could easily hold off something like a tiger. In modern days, the settlers carry rifles.

Unlike a military unit like riflemen, settlers are much weaker due to no formal military training, and the presence of noncombatants such as children. So the abstract notion of settlers in Civ as it is now, makes sense.

	20-09-2005 19:31									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I am quite astonished to learn that obviously people really send out unprotected settlers.
As someone already pointed out above, the risk is much too high in comparison to the gain and under almost any circumstances you may have produced the escorting warrior while you were waiting for the necessary population to build up.

	20-09-2005 19:47									#20
	Remove this text

I hate having to build units to protect my settlers (unless I have some ready). Instead of doing that, I added a new settler unit via the editor, much like the 'Seasoned Settlers' in colonization: it has the same defense than a warrior. It costs more than a regular settler, but takes less time to build than a settler/warrior combo. It's a good tradeoff for less micromanagement IMHO.

	20-09-2005 19:49									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Commander Bello I am quite astonished to learn that obviously people really send out unprotected settlers. As someone already pointed out above, the risk is much too high in comparison to the gain and under almost any circumstances you may have produced the escorting warrior while you were waiting for the necessary population to build up.

It's a bet. It's not real life, we can take some risk for the sake of an early start.

Usually I take this risk very early, patrolling and exploring the area with a warrior and keeping a loose escort on the settler: not enough to save it any time, but enough for many early barbarian approaching.

	20-09-2005 19:50									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Commander Bello I am quite astonished to learn that obviously people really send out unprotected settlers. As someone already pointed out above, the risk is much too high in comparison to the gain and under almost any circumstances you may have produced the escorting warrior while you were waiting for the necessary population to build up.

Whether or not it's worth to defend your settlers is a decision dependent on several factors. Often it's not neccessary, and you'll only loose important time doing so.

	20-09-2005 21:37									#23
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I just wanted to hop in and say that a "wild animals" barb unit is the most stupid idea since ever.

	20-09-2005 23:28									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Commander Bello I am quite astonished to learn that obviously people really send out unprotected settlers. As someone already pointed out above, the risk is much too high in comparison to the gain and under almost any circumstances you may have produced the escorting warrior while you were waiting for the necessary population to build up.

You may also be surprised to hear that unescorted really works. In SMAC I played a Morgan ICS game in which all new settlements were unescorted and only 1/4 got base defenders which were automatically moved to the perimeter settlements.

In comparison with a more cautious style, after 100 turns the unescorted game was 50 turns ahead of the escorted game. RESULT!

	20-09-2005 23:33									#25
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i never ever build defensive units for CP

cIV will be the same.figure out how the lions work and avoid them,or whatever

quote: I just wanted to hop in and say that a "wild animals" barb unit is the most stupid idea since ever.

QFT

	20-09-2005 23:51									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As cheap as settlers are with civ3 default rules, I am not surprised at people sending them out without escort.
Playing games based on Rhye's of Civ mod, where settlers cost anywhere from 120 to almost 300 shields and 3-5 pop points through the ages, you're bleepin' RIGHT I escort them!

BTW, Rhye has been a betatester and has probably had some influence on civ4.

	20-09-2005 23:56									#27
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in that mod though,it probably isnt even worth making new cities after some point imho

	21-09-2005 00:07									#28
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You should assume that a large trek of people has some rudimentary defensive capability.
There won´t be many trained warrios among them (maybe a few who already are too old to be on active duty and now live their lifes as civilians) but even untrained peasants should be able to defend themselves to a certain degree with makeshift weapons (hammers, pitchforks, scythes and the like)

	21-09-2005 00:11									#29
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Yea, let the AI do it, and take theirs.

	21-09-2005 00:46									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe BTW, Rhye has been a betatester and has probably had some influence on civ4.

You sure? And how do you know? I thought that was secret? You're one too perhaps? Aha! Got you!