21-09-2005 15:20									#1
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Just when should we change our Government?

In the following table there are two examples.

Example 1. Follows on that we research Chivalry out to the completion of Knights Templar. Then we move into Anarchy.

Example 2. Follows that we research Chivalry as fast as we can (keeping the Federal Economy in positive), then switching to Anarchy. Once we move into the new Government, we then complete Knights Templar.

We have many irons in the fire at the moment, and in this we need to look closely to the time lines of our nation.


With Chivalry, we get our UU - Keshiks. With that we are then on the edge of our Golden Age.

We do not want a despot Golden Age.



Then once we decide when, we need to choose which one?

Governments: Which one is best for our Horde
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=132863

Time of the Crusader
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=137062

Attachment: 875 time line up date.jpg
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	21-09-2005 15:31									#2
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Thank you for these charts Great Khan

It helps to understand the situation, I see the 5 turns of anarchy has been applied in both cases and though I agree it may be 5 turns it could also just as easily be less. Still best to expect 5.

I will add my weight to the switch as soon as we hit Chivalry option, I see little point putting everything else on hold just for Templars and I believe with shields already stored and the GA when we have our new Gov we will still be first to Templars !!

I believe Paddy has struck an agreement with AM that they not build Templar, and the worst that could hapen is another civ pips us to it, so we use the Keshik to take it and destroy it to make sure no one else gets crusaders !!

If we do lose a race for Templar which i seriously doubt we will then we could do Artemis instead !!

	21-09-2005 15:47									#3
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Ok, a few points on the tables.

I kept anarchy at 5 turns as have no proof it will be shorter
heres hoping

You will also notice that most of the of the builds across example 2 do not get completed when anarchy starts. This is an example - not the finished product

	21-09-2005 15:53									#4
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Thanks Pad. I like example two. Get that government sorted asap.

Will this be polled?

	21-09-2005 16:06									#5
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There is a chance this will be polled, first we need to get some discussion.

	22-09-2005 01:10									#6
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We cannot use keshik before we switch or we will have a despotic (or worse yet - anarchic) golden age. For that reason I suggest we upgrade no horse before the government switch.

We are going to need crusaders because they are going to be the best unit available for a while (5/3/1).

We still need some time to prepare before we switch to monarchy to avoid being killed by the unit upkeep.

I suggest we build templar first and then revolt at the first opportunity (i.e. when at least two settlers have been built in Bloodview and Bloodhue).

	22-09-2005 11:30									#7
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Ljube, is it to be anarchy after 22 turns?

	22-09-2005 11:37									#8
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If we build templar first all we do is delay our gov switch and our chance to use Keshiks.

scenario B is much better, finish chivalry and switch imediately, begin new government and use our first keshik imediately. for GA!

no reason why we cant upgrade units whilst in anarchy as long as we keep them away from front lines they wont trigger a GA prematurely.

with GA we will be first to build Templars no doubt about it, remember we will already be part way there before anarchy so with increased production of GA i would say we might even finish in the same timeframe as option A's plan.

Last edited by ChrisiusMaximus on 22-09-2005 at 12:21

	22-09-2005 12:02									#9
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More I read, more I think, more I like example 2.

	22-09-2005 12:21									#10
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We can easily upgrade Keshiks during anarchy, and we may well move our troops during anarchy to surprise, for example babylon. We can tell them we will stay quiet during anarchy, where we actually will strike them the very turn the anarchy is over. So use the anarchy period as a veil to move our troops. Yet, I think we need to conclude Templar before revolution, as that gives us time to get out settlers and so on in good time for the costly government.

I also support Feudalism this game, due to very high upkeep for a nation with many small towns.

	22-09-2005 12:22									#11
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I think we need a Government change poll, between Despotism, Feudalism and Monarchy.

	22-09-2005 13:11									#12
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Its this more time to do this or that i dont get, remember our production will be much greater once in GA so things will be much easier to complete !

Why force ourselves to wait and wait for the good times to roll while we just pop out one last settler or one last wonder ?

regardless of which Gov we end up agreeing too we should follow path B and get the benefits of GA ASAP!

	22-09-2005 18:53									#13
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ANARCHY!

Cry Havoc! And let loose the Keshiks of War!!

Plan 2 will bring forth the Golden Age of War and Horde world domination just that much sooner!

20 turns of destruction to the unfaithful!

20 turns of death to our enemies!

All Glory to The Blood Oath Horde!

	22-09-2005 19:01									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We need someone to calculate what our upkeep in monarchy will be and how much money we would need to upgrade our units and translate all this in turns.

Regarding golden age, it's better to have it later rather than sooner as it is more of advantage the more cities we have.

	22-09-2005 21:40									#15
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I just did in the government thread.

as it stands, with our economy, our long term plans, free ACs and Crusaders on upkeep as well, we would save 30 gold per turn on the average with Feudalism. This translates to 1200 gold over some 40 turns. With some economic growth there, a couple of markets, conquests and so on, the savings could be as much as 1500 gold. IMHO, Feudalism blows Monarchy out of the water.

	22-09-2005 23:50									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Omnistar I think we need a Government change poll, between Despotism, Feudalism and Monarchy.

We may or may not have a poll on this matter.

Mainly we will have a discussion in the Gov thread

	23-09-2005 00:09									#17
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The government choice will influence my decision here, as we are not mature for monarchy, our cities are small and will remain so for a very long time.

I will delay the revolution for a long time before monarchy, as we got enormours upkeeps ahead. However, I can jump on the quicker solution with Feudalism, which in my opinion will win us the day and the game.