22-09-2005 04:46									#1
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Inspired by other thread, I wanted to talk about nazis, and how it would happen today.

First of all, I don't believe in 'it couldn't happen today'. That's just words, I don't know what the reason behind it is. Or that the Germans were weaker than others, so Hitler came to power and they realized what was going on too late.

I believe it could happen everywhere. Germans were humiliated from the first world war with the treaty of Versailles, they were doing poorly, and then came strong leader who promised stuff, seemed tough and basically made things better inside.

Now, the only thing that could have stopped it ealrier would have been outside intervention earlier, or maybe assasination would do it. Let's not forget there were attempts on his life and conspirators, inside Germany. There were students raising their voice, there were people who were against it. And they also were the first occupants of the camps. Or they just disappeared. Like in other countries, where brutal dictators have ruled.

When you start waging your life, possibly if you would join resistance, your family's life, you tend to get more .. careful. Maybe more survival thinking sets in that world politics.

Let's not forget that Hitler did sell the invasions first, and then did it. It was seen as necessary or at least that there was a reason for it. And he was able to keep everyone back for a while too, until his true intentions came known when he would just go on.

Don't forget that we think it's OK to invade one or two countries. When it gets further, it makes everyone think but before that, if the future action is sold, there's a great chance of no one intervening.

He had production going on for a long time, lots of equipment and weapons, and hardcore dudes carrying it out.

Just think about it, give any modern country leader some years to equip themselves, give them lots of soldiers like nazis were, and some time to run around, we are all in great deal of trouble. No matter how many planes we got, it's trouble for sures.

All I'm saying is, what would happen in the future can happen, and because we know a recent incident like this doesn't mean anything really, it helps, but it's not a .. it doesn't mean it couldn't happen again. Especially if the bad guys get a good head start, it gets more complicated than that.

If you can figure out how to train enough troops and get them loyal to you, have the key entities gripped by their balls, and have hte resources tapped in for you, few years and anything is possible. Maybe not the world domination, but you can put up a fight that will have everyone involved and it's going to be pretty serious and not clear cut decision who wins.

	22-09-2005 05:09									#2
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Your point?

HItler rose to power for a variety of time and place specific reasons.

If your point is that all societies can lead to authoritarian rule, then certainly. The social dynamics that would lead a significant portion of the population to welcome authoritarian leadership and allow the majority to simply go along with it are in all human societies.

And unless you are willing to say that at any time the masses can become "bad guys", that sort of language is a bit outdated.

	22-09-2005 05:11									#3
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What, I think that's what I said exactly. That it can happen everywhere. Meaning everyone can become hte bad guys without realizing it early enough, and even when some do, they just justify it by some weird logic they made up to suit the day and the claim, so they can sleep at night and not bother with it.

	22-09-2005 05:15									#4
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Why do you hate America, you communist?

	22-09-2005 05:18									#5
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America? What's this got to do with the US?

All I'm saying in the middle of all nazi hysteria, that we might be all guilty if it happened to us. Submitting to them like girlie men. People are not so brave beating their chests and shouting *NEVAAAH!* when few tough nazis come with rifles and tell you to shut the hell up and kiss their boots.

I mean, you can resist, but you'll get the crap kicked out of you, go to prison or be shot if you decide act like someone not too willing to agree with them.

	22-09-2005 05:23									#6
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I know most people here like to think of a simple and obvious hierarchy or values, with individual human rights as the pinnacle, and specifically assign anyone holding, advocating, or pushing values that conflict with theirs as the "bad guys". I myself personally do hold human rights as one of the highest values, but at the same time, I am not some omnicient diety, so I can hardly state with any certainty that in the end, my set of values were right and that they won't lead to the end of the world. For all we know, in 1000 years our set of values will be seen with the same eyes we hold the values of the leaders in 1005.

A bigger point is that all human beings actually hod a number of values, sometimes totally contradictory values, within them. We may want freedom, but also safety. You want not to be controlled, and to control. You want everyone to respect what's yours, and covet what others have. Its a tangled web of desires and fears. Sometimes this leads people to advocate civil liberties, sometimes that leads them to advocate their end.

	22-09-2005 05:46									#7
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I don't think Hitler or Stalin could've happened everywhere.

	22-09-2005 05:50									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson I don't think Hitler or Stalin could've happened everywhere.

HItler and Stalin are specific individuals in specific time periods and situations.

The issue is societies turning to authoritarian regimes.

There is a difference, even if people try to overdramatize by trying to paint the worst case scenerio.